| Author |
Message |
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: 60 bus wiring - need help |
 |
|
I'm having trouble with the last few wires on my 60 bus. Wondering if somebody with a 60 might be able to recognize any of the loose wires and know where they go. thanks for any help!
Last edited by type2much on Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: 60 bus wiring - need help |
|
|
| type2much wrote: |
| I'm having trouble with the last few wires on my 60 bus. Wondering if somebody with a 60 might be able to recognize any of the loose wires and know where they go. thanks for any help! |
http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/bus-62.jpg everything you need to know is here
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
this is the bus. she's a runner, but needs few wiring bugs worked out. from what I understand 60's had a one year only wiring.
been slowly getting all her hacked wires hooked up. so far the headlights, (bright and dim), front parking lights, tail lights, horn, and dash lights work.
no turn signals yet, still needs brake lights too. been using these diagrams but some things don't seem quite right for a 60.
Last edited by type2much on Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: 60 bus wiring - need help |
|
|
| splitpile wrote: |
| type2much wrote: |
| I'm having trouble with the last few wires on my 60 bus. Wondering if somebody with a 60 might be able to recognize any of the loose wires and know where they go. thanks for any help! |
http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/bus-62.jpg everything you need to know is here |
that diagram shows a 3 wire turn signal switch, mine has 6 wires. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10797
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wow. lose a lot of those keys! that is going to ruin your ignition switch in a hurry.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_59_USA.jpg
i've said it before, i'll say it again.
the only significant difference between a '59 "6 fuse" fuse block, and a '60 "8 fuse" fuse block in terms of the wiring diagram, is that the '60 runs the low beams (yellow wires) through the fuse block, hence the extra 2 fuses in the block. the '59 has the low beam wiring tied directly together, not fused.
use a '59 diagram and you should be fine, just compensate for the low beams being fused through your fuse block and not directly wired. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
| wow. lose a lot of those keys! that is going to ruin your ignition switch in a hurry. |
that would be my bus key collection  I'll give the useful one it's own key chain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_59_USA.jpg
i've said it before, i'll say it again.
the only significant difference between a '59 "6 fuse" fuse block, and a '60 "8 fuse" fuse block in terms of the wiring diagram, is that the '60 runs the low beams (yellow wires) through the fuse block, hence the extra 2 fuses in the block. the '59 has the low beam wiring tied directly together, not fused.
use a '59 diagram and you should be fine, just compensate for the low beams being fused through your fuse block and not directly wired. |
this '59 wiring diagram helped a lot, thanks! I now have brake lights, & working wiper motor. The front and rear flasher lights temporarily lit up but did not flash. then later they did not light up at all. all 8 fuses are good, would it just need a new flasher relay? Is there a particular 12V relay to buy at Auto Zone? any ideas on how to ground an aftermarket relay? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stanagon
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2003
Posts: 4195
Location: Boston, MA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Are you running 6volts or 12?
You wouldn't want a 12 volt relay if it was stock 6V, or vice versa.
The correct turn signal relay for my '61 (built Nov. '60) hasn't been easy to find. I did find one here on theSamba recently and paid about $25 for a new one. Not Bosch, but Ideal brand. The box is stamped, "268 6 volt, fits Volkswagen, for 2-18 watt lamps".
From what I've been able to figure out, you want a 3-pin relay that has a "K" terminal for the turn signal indicator in the speedo. The Ideal one has the "K" terminal, a "+" terminal and an "S" terminal. The '57-'61 factory diagrams show terminals "54" and "15", and "K" for the relay. So to translate:
"54" = S (signal, to turn signal switch)
"15" = + (switched battery + from ignition switch)
and the K is also a signal wire for the indicator light.
The '62 diagram shows the relay with "S", "+" and "K" terminals.
From what I can tell by looking at the wiring diagrams in my Bentley, the relay looks to be the same for US buses from April 1957 through at least '63 or so.
You can certainly wire up other generic relays to work, 2-pin, 3-pin whatever, but it's harder to get the lights to all operate correctly, esp. using the original wiring.
_________________
Stan's Classic Service, specializing in air-cooled VWs:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=614073
www.stanagon.com
My '61 Mango bus thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110367
My '64 vert thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=386344
My '71 squareback thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=637709
Last edited by Stanagon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stanagon wrote: |
Are you running 6volts or 12?
You wouldn't want a 12 volt relay if it was stock 6V, or vice versa.
|
I'm running 12 volts on a January 60 bus, thanks for the relay tips.
Anybody have an idea about how to ground an aftermarket relay canister?
could just solder a wire onto it and put the other end under a screw, I guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stanagon
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2003
Posts: 4195
Location: Boston, MA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| type2much wrote: |
| Stanagon wrote: |
Are you running 6volts or 12?
You wouldn't want a 12 volt relay if it was stock 6V, or vice versa.
|
I'm running 12 volts on a January 60 bus, thanks for the relay tips.
Anybody have an idea about how to ground an aftermarket relay canister?
could just solder a wire onto it and put the other end under a screw, I guess. |
Not as simple as adding a wire. The correct flasher is 2 switches in one. One to flash the outside lights and one to flash the dash light.
Use a flasher relay from a 69 bay. It has all the correct terminals you need, running one in my 59 for the last 10 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10797
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
i use german made 3 prong turn signal relays. the incredibly common ones found on just about every VW since 1970. new ones are about $10.
wiring is as follows:
VW part number: 191 953 227 A
3 prong relay, 12v, common
terminal 31: ground to body
terminal 49: + from + on fuse block (powered only when key is on, 2nd from right)
terminal 49a: (blue) wire to turn signal indicator bulb in speedometer *and* blk/grn/white from turn signal switch (piggybacked on the same terminal) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stanagon wrote: |
| what are the terminal i.d.s on the relay you have? |
49, 49a +, and the third ends in a 1 but I can't read the first number
it also says 12V Buss Flasher no. 550 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="hazetguy"]i use german made 3 prong turn signal relays. the incredibly common ones found on just about every VW since 1970. new ones are about $10.
VW part number: 191 953 227 A
quote]
would Autozone have VW part number: 191 953 227 A or do I need to go to a VW shop? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10797
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| no idea, i do not buy parts at autozone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
terminal 31: ground to body
|
I tried this and immediately popped the 7th fuse from the left. The 59 wiring diagram doesn't seem to show a terminal going to ground. I thought the flasher body itself needed grounded. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stanagon
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2003
Posts: 4195
Location: Boston, MA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10797
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yes, same relay. it has differing part numbers, but the circuitry and terminals are the same. i believe the 191 number is the current superseded part number. at least that is the number on the tag on the new one i bought a few weeks ago.
the 7th fuse from the left (2nd from right) is power hot when the key is turned on. that fuse/circuit is the one that is supposed to send power to the relay. i'm not gonna guess why it blew the fuse. using and diagnosing a who knows how old Buss relay with mystery wiring and/or grounding, to me is not worth the hassle and time it takes versus just sticking a modern relay in and wiring it as i described.
i'll take some pics of the wiring in my bus in the morning. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
type2much
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 319
Location: 65536 Missouri
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stanagon wrote: |
hazetguy,
Is this the relay you are referring to?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=553154
Part # 111...
I've got a few versions of the 111 953 227A (Bosch, SWF and a few Hellas).
type2much,
Send me a pm if you need a relay like the one in the above link (that's not my ad).
I'm not sure why you'd be blowing the fuse. Sometimes it takes a lot of quiet time contorted under the bus dash to sort out crazy wiring. You've got to trace down wires and make sure they are going to and from where they are supposed to. A lot can happen to a wiring harness over the course of 48 years. |
went to the local VW parts guy today, he sold me a 111 953 227 relay. Is this different than a 111 953 227A? It has terminal 31, 49, and 49a. So far still don't have blinkers. Anybody have a good picture of how theirs is wired? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
