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Eurovan rear brakes vanagon (UPDATED w/ ford caliper/rotor)
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a914622
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Eurovan rear brakes vanagon (UPDATED w/ ford caliper/rotor) Reply with quote

So here is yet anouther idea on the rear brake set up for the Vanagon.

Rotors= solid Eurovan 12mm thick
caliper= audi 5000 turbo
pads = mark 1 vw
bracket = home made
Studs= 944 porsche front
Ebrake cable turned around

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I did one side in about 30 min.
HUGE brake improvement!!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by a914622 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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dangerber
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great! And I'll bet pretty cost effective. Do you have any drawings of the brackets? I'd love to do a DIY rear brake swap, but haven't been able to find any bracket designs...

Anyone?

Thanks!
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tristessa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drawings with measurements would rock, along with knowing what thickness of the metal you used. Also, which Eurovan rotors did you use? Front, rear .. year?

I CAD-ed up the bracket outline for those calipers with Benz 190 rear rotors last year, but could never figure out how to make the needed offset without welding .. and I still don't feel that my welding is up to the job. My skillz are t3h sux0r...
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a914622
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes they were VERY cost effective to do. Calipers were 10.00 at the pull-a-part. Rotors= 30.00 set (someone ordered the wrong ones and couldn't send back)
pads=3.00 pull-a-part Bracket= not much Ebrake cable=none
Knowing when i throw out the anchor im going to stop= Priceless

OK here is a cartoon of the bracket i made. Its .505 thick. The clearance is only .05 aside on the carrier.

The rotors are 2000 rear 280mm dia x 12mm thick. A 15 inch wheel will clear but not the 14s.

If there is enough interest I can make up a few brackets.

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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to FYI the masses..

price on those Audi 5000 rear calipers can be quite $$
rebuilds are around $150-170 ea..

I own a few Audi 5000.. well mine are turbo quattros so that may figure in for the higher.. vs a 5000 non-turbo non-AWD model..



and since I've a few Audis about there's good chance I'll add a few to the back of my camper..
my baja bug (see gallery) is running a vanagon rear axle & bearing housing with Audi 5000 rear rotors & Subaru (loyal) front calipers (which contain the E-brakes & BIGGER pistons).. but i have to stop the rotational mass of a 32" knobby tire (heavy sucka when spinning) with Audi 5000TQ rims

anyways.. this looks good.. looking forward to adding rear discs to my campers.

Dan
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ProvoCyclist
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the difference between the Audi calipers and those from the a2/a3 VW's? I know the e-brake pull locations are different on the VW units. But what else?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
just to FYI the masses..

price on those Audi 5000 rear calipers can be quite $$
rebuilds are around $150-170 ea..

I own a few Audi 5000.. well mine are turbo quattros so that may figure in for the higher.. vs a 5000 non-turbo non-AWD model..



and since I've a few Audis about there's good chance I'll add a few to the back of my camper..
my baja bug (see gallery) is running a vanagon rear axle & bearing housing with Audi 5000 rear rotors & Subaru (loyal) front calipers (which contain the E-brakes & BIGGER pistons).. but i have to stop the rotational mass of a 32" knobby tire (heavy sucka when spinning) with Audi 5000TQ rims

anyways.. this looks good.. looking forward to adding rear discs to my campers.

Dan

While researching the Audi 5000 Turbo calipers a bit, I came across a recall notice for Audi brakes from 84-87. Said they would unexpectedly bind.
Any knowledge of this?

Seems an awful lot of Audis of that vintage still on the road. I assume they sorted it out?
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a914622
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what i could tell the audi calipers use a thicker pad than the a1-a4s. (thicker by a little over 1mm) Thats why i used the pads from a a2 jetta.

Both the audi and vw use a 10mm rotor. In order to get the 12mm to work with the calipers I used the short pads on the long caliper. But in thinking about it you could mill .05 off the a1 calipers and they would fit the 12mm rotor.
The caliper carriers from what i could tell were/are the same.Same bolt pattern and same offset.

I used a 85 audi turbo only because that what the wrecking yard had. It may be more cost friendly to use a1 or a2 calipers and cut the pads down.

BUT in thinking The Eurovan also came with a 13.5 mm vented rotor for the 16" wheel package. I wander if the a3-a4 stuff ever came with a 13.5mm thick rotor???

thanks jcl
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the rotor just goes on the stock hub like a space/adapter then?
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am VERY curious to this combo of parts as I've been using the Audi 5000 TQ rear rotors (FWD audi have bearings in rear rotor, not a 2 piece design)
the Audi rotors have required the hub to be turned down and it looks like you left the hubs alone in this application and one less part to take to the machine shop the better.

here's some reasearch for the thread I did on www.diyautoparts.com

2002 Eurovan (though they don't state the rotor thickness)
Rear; Std. Brakes; 280mm OD ( 2 product lines $34 or $50 ea)
Rear; H/D Brakes; 294mm OD ( 2 product lines $39 or $60 ea)

and Porsche 944 (1988 944 's') rear studs are ~$8ea. (45mm length)

biggest advantage so far is not having to machine these rotors.
if we could get a accurate "shopping list" of items used (ie year & model) that would add even more value to this thread.
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August 22/23/24 Westcott beach state park. (sites nearest the lake loop)
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a914622
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me try to address the questions

1) yes i did have to machine down the rear hub from the vanagon. The first pic shows a witness mark of the threads that used to hold the drum on. The rotor is hubcentric to the vanagon hub (146mm or 147mm dia)

2) I bolted on a set of mk1 calipers i had, and they fit perfect. But the pads would have to have 1mm machined off if they were new. The pads on the mk1 calipers i used were almost worn out. The mk1/a1 rear disks are only 10mm.

3) The rotors are 2000 eurvan 12mm thick 280mm dia. Eurvans came with 2 brake combos. One uses 12mm thick rotors and the outher uses 13.5 mm thick rotors. I did a lot of looking on the autohausaz.com and the bermbo sight. I mocked up a setup using the audi turbo rear 10mm. I didnt like the offset of the rotor. the bracket would have been more complex

4) yes the brakes clear 15 audi wheels. The wheels in the pics are 17s. The front rotors now look Very very small.

I hope this helps. Im looking in to the cost of having sets of the brackets made and anodized in groups of 25ish.I may have some listed soon. The rough figure was 40.00 a pair but not a done deal yet.

I now have 1500 miles with no issues.
thanks jcl
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Vanagon rear hub has diameter of 167.5mm.
The Eurovan rear rotors have an inside diameter of 145.5mm.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this helps. Im looking in to the cost of having sets of the brackets made and anodized in groups of 25ish.I may have some listed soon. The rough figure was 40.00 a pair but not a done deal yet.

ANODIZED?? This implies the brackets are aluminum. Maybe I'm paranoid but how about steel?
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indeed the Audi TQ rear rotors have a big inset that made my homebuilt baja rear brake carriers a little more complicated.. adding to that I used mid 80's Subaru front calipers (Big piston + E_brake)

It's not much of a big deal to have the hubs machined as theres a buncha other fabrication work.. it's a shame there's not a XX rotor that will fit the vanagons hub with no modification to allow a 'kit' to just entail brackets and a parts list.

Dan

a914622 wrote:
Let me try to address the questions

3) The rotors are 2000 eurvan 12mm thick 280mm dia. Eurvans came with 2 brake combos. One uses 12mm thick rotors and the outher uses 13.5 mm thick rotors. I did a lot of looking on the autohausaz.com and the bermbo sight. I mocked up a setup using the audi turbo rear 10mm. I didnt like the offset of the rotor. the bracket would have been more complex

4) yes the brakes clear 15 audi wheels. The wheels in the pics are 17s. The front rotors now look Very very small.

I hope this helps. Im looking in to the cost of having sets of the brackets made and anodized in groups of 25ish.I may have some listed soon. The rough figure was 40.00 a pair but not a done deal yet.

I now have 1500 miles with no issues.
thanks jcl

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2019 Empire State VW camping events


May 17/18 Chenango Valley SP (Pine Bluff loop) Sites 194-207
June 7/8 Grass Point state park (waters edge sites)
July 27/28 Sacandaga Campsite near Wells, NY DEC on the River. Sites# (61-70 between the rivers)
August 22/23/24 Westcott beach state park. (sites nearest the lake loop)
Sept 20/21 Moffitt beach DEC at Speculator, NY (sites 238-248 down on the end)
Oct 11/12 FAIRHAVEN State park for Fall sunsets over lake Ontario. Lakeview loop.
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a914622
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wellington wrote:
I hope this helps. Im looking in to the cost of having sets of the brackets made and anodized in groups of 25ish.I may have some listed soon. The rough figure was 40.00 a pair but not a done deal yet.

ANODIZED?? This implies the brackets are aluminum. Maybe I'm paranoid but how about steel?



Yes your paranoid.
1/2 thick aluminum is stronger than the paper thin drums that came stock.
Smile
jcl
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
iIt's not much of a big deal to have the hubs machined as theres a buncha other fabrication work.. it's a shame there's not a XX rotor that will fit the vanagons hub with no modification to allow a 'kit' to just entail brackets and a parts list.

The ML320 rear does. BUT, the rotor width is not very much......
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

can anyone with a Rotors look up (chart/manual/webpage) give me a make+model for a 5x112 hat (2piece) rotor with a surface to surface thickness of 20mm? solid or vented?

I think I may have to go with Syncro front rotors like the small car site shows. for my subaru caliper set-up as it's expecting a ~20mm ish thick rotor (surface to surface)

all this for the rears on my Westies.

Dan
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2019 Empire State VW camping events


May 17/18 Chenango Valley SP (Pine Bluff loop) Sites 194-207
June 7/8 Grass Point state park (waters edge sites)
July 27/28 Sacandaga Campsite near Wells, NY DEC on the River. Sites# (61-70 between the rivers)
August 22/23/24 Westcott beach state park. (sites nearest the lake loop)
Sept 20/21 Moffitt beach DEC at Speculator, NY (sites 238-248 down on the end)
Oct 11/12 FAIRHAVEN State park for Fall sunsets over lake Ontario. Lakeview loop.
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a914622
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all
Just an update. Im reworking the brackets to use the rear calipers form a 95-2003 ford. The caliper/ pads will need no modification. A FULLING BOLT ON SETUP. And Im going to make a bracket to use the larger 295mmx13mm dai eurovan rotor if bigger is your thing .

Im thinking for around 110.00 i can provide the turning of the hubs and the brackets. You get the rotors and calipers and rear brakes should be under 400.00

But let me finish the engineering and post and update later.

jcl
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a914622 wrote:
Hey all
Just an update. Im reworking the brackets to use the rear calipers form a 95-2003 ford. The caliper/ pads will need no modification. A FULLING BOLT ON SETUP. And Im going to make a bracket to use the larger 295mmx13mm dai eurovan rotor if bigger is your thing .

Im thinking for around 110.00 i can provide the turning of the hubs and the brackets. You get the rotors and calipers and rear brakes should be under 400.00

But let me finish the engineering and post and update later.

jcl


Any updates on the progress of your rear disc set up as described? I am anxiously waiting....I feel like heinz ketchup...Anticipation!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Rear Brake Brackets Reply with quote

Hello,
looks like you did a fine job on your brake kit. Frm what I can tell, the rear brake calipers are the same as the ones used on many German autos. Anyway, I have all of the parts other than the adapters. How much do you want for a set of brackets and what are they made of AL or steel? [email protected]. Thanks for the detailed write up! ALso, I have nstalledthe G60's on the ront with little fan fare. Took about 45 minutes per side. I am experiencing a lock up issue though. Any thoughts? Also, do you need to adjust the regulator for the rear brakes once they are installed?

Bill
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