PS Rack in a Non PS Van?

[66 Shorty]

Hey Guys, I have a Question about putting a PS rack in a NON-PS Van...

I just want to know if I can use the PS rack I have on hand, in a van that doesn't have PS. I don't want to buy all the ness. pieces to add PS, I just want to use the rack.

I've heard a few different things, like filling it with grease, or filling it with ATF, & plug it off... or why don't you try to trade someone for a manual rack... Just don't know what to do!!! I don't know what van it actually came out of, so, I can't say which one it's for... Maybe I can find out by the numbers on it, IDK...

Thanks in advance for any info you can give!
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~X-Man~

'60's Spatz Buggy body on '74 Chassis (Budget Build)
'69 Bug (Baja-to-be partial daily)
'10 Silverado (My daily)

[insyncro]

You will need the knuckles from a PS van as well.

[mwsnow]

[insyncro]

Because of bump steer.

I change the knuckles and properly plumb the system.
Do as you please.

[mwsnow]

The geometry is unchanged. How is bump steer affected?

[insyncro]

The attachment point at the non PS knuckle differs from the PS knuckle.

The geometry of the non PS knuckle paired with a PS rack is different.

[Syncrozilla]

Iirc not only do you need the ps ujoint but also the shaft that goes to the steering angle box. I believe it's a little shorter as the snout on the ps rack is longer. It's been a couple years since I did the sway so I could be wrong. Also FYI the steering will require more effort if you have an non functional ps rack than a manual rack. There is really no good reason to go to the effort of installing the ps rack and not adding all the other ps stuff.
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[insyncro]

Yup, there are other steering parts that should be swapped as well, but the OP and Mike seem to be looking for low cost solutions not effortless steering.

Mark Drilock has posted pictures of the differences in steering shaft lenghts, pre86, 86-91 and Syncro.

Don't forget the larger diameter steering wheel on the non PS vans.

[mwsnow]

A couple of points here, and then I'll leave it alone:

I agree with Seth, that there is really no good reason to go to the effort of installing the PS rack and not adding all of the other PS components, at least not now. Since 1999, when I bought my first Vanagon, manual steering racks have never been easy to source. Some vendors (Bus Depot, at least) are advertising them for sale, by special order, not in stock. Availability may be slightly better now, but is still nowhere near as good as for the power steering racks. I can get a PS rack at my FLAPS or any one of several online vendors, in stock for immediate shipment. My purpose for installing a PS rack into an '82 diesel was that I intended to, eventually, source all of the PS parts and install them. I never did install them, finding no compelling reason in the following 15,000 miles. I gave the parts to the new owner of the van when I sold it.

IF there is any dimensional difference between the working ends of the power and manual steering racks, I would bet that is it so minimal that flex in the rubber mounting bushings has a greater effect on the tie-rod/knuckle angle than the dimensional differences between the racks themselves. Bump steer is a red herring. A power rack installed in place of a manual rack will perform substantially the same as the manual rack, with one exception - low-speed steering will require a bit more effort than before, but will still require less steering effort than a van with PS rack and PS knuckles and no hydraulic assist. Many drivers, myself included, have driven thousands and thousands of miles with no belt on the power steering pump in vans equipped with PS racks and PS knuckles. It is no big deal, as long as you keep the tire size somewhere near OE. My 215/75-15 tires were a struggle in straight-in parking lots, but 185R14 or 195R14 are a breeze. Steering wheels are interchangeable, regardless of the other components.

The value of "effortless" steering is entirely subjective. The auto industry as a whole has transitioned to variable-assist power steering, eliminating the numb, over-assisted feel at speed. In our antiquated Vanagons, the choice is only ON/OFF. I have only ever felt the need for it with oversized tires in tight parking lots.

Before it became fashionable to spend money unnecessarily, thrift used to be considered a virtue. Maybe it still is in places other than MY driveway, but I can only speculate.

Mike

P.S. When the PS rack is removed, don't miss the opportunity to change the rubber steering coupler at the front end of the steering shaft. It will never be easier.

[JeffRobenolt]

The power steering rack has the same part # for 80-91 vans.

I know the knuckles are different on 85 and older vs 86 and newer.

So are you saying that between 1980 and 1985 there are two different steering knuckles??

I never have heard that before.

Jeff
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[mwsnow]

[crazyvwvanman]

It is worse than that. There are 4 different steering knuckles that were used 80-85. They all take the same brake caliper and rotor.

In addition to the different position of the tie rod attachment point on PS knuckles 84/85 there was another change made about the same time. The end of the spindle was made a larger diameter and requires a different outer wheel bearing to fit it.

Mark

[hans j]

For what it's worth, I have a manual rack in my '86 syncro with the P/S wheel, 215/75-15 BFG's and while I have to yank on it to turn in a tight paved parking spot, I have NEVER had a single steering issue otherwise, not even on slickrock.

I can't see how bump steer would change if all the components are the same. The P/S rack doesn't mount any different so it shouldn't change in that regard. You can only set toe one way (the correct way) so that wouldn't change either.

I can see how changing the knuckle would change geometry slightly but really? These aren't race cars. Yes they should be safe to drive on the street but if you even knew what was lurking out there. I see ball joints on Audi's all the time ready to just pop out, people driving around on flat tires, brakes totally malfunctioning and so on...

I would keep it manual steering if that's what your van has. I bought mine how it is and that's how it's going to stay, especially since all the P/S lines were rusted out so I just got rid of them. Plus less parasitic draw on the engine!
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[66 Shorty]

Thanks for the answers guy. I don't HAVE a Manual Rack, I only Posses the PS Rack. The Van doesn't have any rack in it... but, was manual... I was given the PS Rack with the Van. The angle steering box wasn't installed either.

So, from What I'm reading, It'll be perfectly fine for me to use the PS Rack, if I cut the lines & loop them together? As far as the steering shaft goes, I'll have to find one, but, with both parts out of the Van, should b easy enough to find one that'll fit.
_________________
~X-Man~

'60's Spatz Buggy body on '74 Chassis (Budget Build)
'69 Bug (Baja-to-be partial daily)
'10 Silverado (My daily)