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identifying an oil leak (pics) (type4 motor)
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: identifying an oil leak (pics) (type4 motor) Reply with quote

So I have an oil leak seemingly out of nowhere. Trans is rebuilt 2 years ago, motor one year ago. (AVP rebuild on the motor, German trans from Bend OR for the trans)

Ive circled in this picture where it seems like the oil is coming from, at least when it's sitting for a while, this is where the drips seem to form:

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After running around town for a bit and then stopping, this is what appears after about 30 minutes:
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What's odd is that while it seems like oil, I don't appear to be low on oil either.

One last shot of the area:
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any thoughts on whats leaking, or where I may look to tighten this up and stop it?

thanks,
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dreadnotmusic
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you've just taken it off, you appear to not have a fuel pump block off plate. Your case is from a 72-74. Oil runs downhill, not up; so the oil up there is an indication that it's coming from up above.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt intend to take anything off, I guess it can just fall off?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's where the fuel pump would be if it was equipped for one but that ones not machined or drilled, FI engine.

What does the oil smell like? Engine or transmission? One of the seals in there is leaking, crankshaft main seal or trans. input shaft.
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fastmc25
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope..... yours never came with one..... that's normal looking..... notice no thread inserts?

My guess is either the front main seal or tranny input shaft seal....

One drop of oil goes a long way... Shocked
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realize that the FI engines still had the boss for the mechanical pump. Cool.

Either way there's still a good bit of oil around it.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

darn, it was starting to sound like an easier fix than what its going to end up being now....

of the possible sources, all involve dropping the trans to replace?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fastmc25 wrote:
My guess is either the front main seal or tranny input shaft seal....

X2... bummer!! Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will just have to remove the engine and flywheel. Its not that hard to do. Make a party out of it. Cool
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"just" remove the engine he says. Laughing


it's unfortunately not a task im equipped for, and frankly didn't expect id have to do again so soon after just having the whole motor replaced...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a small leak to me. If you can't fix it now put a drip pan under it and keep an eye on the oil level.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it a used engine? Did it have a new flywheel seal?
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it was a rebuilt motor from AVP, installed by my local shop.

July of 2006 was when the install of the rebuild was done, so it's been a little over 2 years now actually...

I checked my receipt, and it does show that a new 'input shaft seal' was installed at the time.

I didn't see anything about a flywheel seal in my invoice, but im guessing thats all part of the rebuild from AVP and wouldn't have been charged separate by the local shop...

so, 2 years, 2 months and 12,768 miles and the flywheel seal is done already. - im guessing this isn't the normal wear and tear, and either something was faulty part-wise, install-wise or (im assuming) operator-error?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

akc, sounds like
youre right about that. Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can tell ya it depends on how the engine is run/maintained , also..... if it's gotten hot a few times under hard driving i've seen them fail....
I've seen new ones fail .... sometimes folks forget to lube the sealing surface before the install the flywheel and it'll cook the seal right away.... brand of seal used can make a difference.... German vs. Brazilian vs. Chinese.... who knows ... Rolling Eyes

12,768 miles sounds pretty good depending on the above info... I have also seen seals go for a long time and never leak..... It's a crapshoot sometimes...
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

btw, I had a chance to check out your baja bus pics and all I can say is - wow.

followed of course by "I want one" ;p

power, space for camping stuff, and some off road abilities = really can't be beat.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
btw, I had a chance to check out your baja bus pics and all I can say is - wow.

followed of course by "I want one" ;p

power, space for camping stuff, and some off road abilities = really can't be beat.


Thanks, It's fun... Very Happy
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

went on my first long hard journey since this began and it looks like ill need to address this sooner than later....

after about 100 miles of hard up and down hills nonstop, it leaks like a bastaad. say a 8 inch round puddle after 15 minutes of sitting after being at 220 for oil temp, and the oil pressure was down just below 20 PSI at full power/rpm's.

crankshaft mail seal sounds like the culprit, just drop the motor and pull the flywheel? do you lower the trans in the process, or can you just unbolt it from the trans and lower the motor out of the way?

(if thats an obvious question, ill consult my manuals as well of course before starting anything...)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooohhhhhh..., yeah, I'd say it's time to drop it.

You can get the engine out without doing anything to the trans but it goes a whole lot smoother if you remove the 2 upper carrier bolts above the bellhousing and drop the trans roughly 2"-4" onto a milk crate or similar support under it. You'll need a 15mm wrench or socket.

It's hard to get the engine back enough to clear the trans without running into the rear apron if you don't.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
crankshaft mail seal sounds like the culprit, just drop the motor and pull the flywheel?


It's surprisingly easy to install the main seal cock-eyed. Just make sure that it's seated into the case all the way 'round.

And be sure to replace the flywheel O-ring, too. It's often overlooked. It fits into a groove in the bottom of the "socket" in the flywheel where the crankshaft goes. If I recall, Bentley doesn't really show this relationship well, and it's easy to think (wrongly) that the O-ring goes onto the crank before you mount the flywheel. Nope, you install the O-ring into the flywheel before you mount it to the crank.
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