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Limited slip / locking differential?
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rjonas
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Limited slip / locking differential? Reply with quote

Spent most of my lunch hour "searching" threads and topics but to no avail.

Is there any posi, limited slip or locking differential available for baywindow bus transmissions.

I have a 73 Westfalia SUVW with ~ 2" lift and 215/75R15 BFG A/T tires.
Looks tuff and has lots of ground clearance but....
This past weekend while camping in Columbia, MO the little lady and I decided to take the westy on a safari (after having a few cocktails) to explore my cousins 500 acre farm. Mostly in the CRP so there are no crops just tall grass, wildflowers and summer wheat and he brush hogs down a 12' wide perimeter around the fields. First gear at a good clip keeping my momentum up until I came through a wet spot and...zing...zing...I was stuck. Not deep, just wet grass with 1-2" of mud and I gave up before I really got buried. Right rear tire just spun, left one...zilch. Embarrassed I called up my cousin to rescue me. A tiny tug with a Polaris 4-wheeler and I was free. I am confident that if the left tire did anything at all I would not have been stuck.

Signed,
Humbled in Missouri
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Jeff Geisen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are LSD's available for bay window buses. They can be distinguished by part #, and don't live as long as ordinary trans axles.

Next time you find yourself in a one wheel driving and the other not scenario try pulling the parking brake out part way, sometimes this fools the diff into sending power to the other wheel.
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theizzardking
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about dropping a np249 tansfercase in there and some dana 40's axels?
a couple of arb's for the front and rear dana's and you should be golden!!!


...just kidding that would be sweet though!!!!


it seems as if you could sort out some sort of lsd kit for it, they're pretty simple and fabing oune to fit the bus shouldn't be too hard.

really i just want in on this thread so i can see if anyone has done this? a syncro baywindow..sweet!
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Dogman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm...I could pull the NP231 and Dana 30/44 that are loaded with ARBs out of my Jeep Laughing

Nah, the Jeep is way too fun.
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WestyPop
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might want to do some searching over at http://www.shoptalkforums.net/ The section called "The Transaxle Forum" would be the best place to start. The subject of LSDs has come up a lot, and it seems that there are at least a couple of frequent contributors there that actually do the conversions.

Since having LSD in several other vehicles really has helped their winter mobility, I'm also interested for the baywindows; just not ready yet to lay out the cash required to go for it.

Keep us posted.



J.R.
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Limited Slip Differential would be a nice option to have if one was planning to do some BLM camping :0)

Karl do you know of any LSD option for T2’s?
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rjonas
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WestyPop wrote:
Might want to do some searching over at http://www.shoptalkforums.net/ The section called "The Transaxle Forum" would be the best place to start. The subject of LSDs has come up a lot, and it seems that there are at least a couple of frequent contributors there that actually do the conversions.


Thanks WestyPop!
Shop talk forums....who knew? I didn't.
Now I have another great air cooled website to spend whats left of my work days Laughing

If it's not too expensive I may stick in a LSD while freshening up my gearbox next spring. Syncro is kind of crunchy into 3rd after streaching out 2nd.

Hopefully more LSD users will pipe in here with real world reports of how the perform and hold up to off roading.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleysing has a LSD in his bus, PM him.

Your other option is split (dual, not pre 6Cool parking brakes, stop the spinning wheel.
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Oil Phil-M
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These guys seem to have a wide range of parts: http://www.longenterprises.com/

Look under the High Performance Parts and scroll down, you'll eventually see a part listing. I can't see a price list but I'm sure I've seen somewhere that they are around $1000+ I would love to have one but the price is steep for the amount of time it would come into play with the type of driving I do.
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borninabus
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you need to call someone out west who does buggies. limited slip is not that uncommon. you need to do some thinking about it though. i'm no tranny expert, but apparently, if you do the wrong thing with the gas pedal during cornering (on asphalt) you can easily roll your bus. the haynes manual has the best description of how the factory limited slip works.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had one put in my 091 by AA transaxle which cost $1200. Its awesome and stops that little mudpuddle stuck action. I went up some steep gravel roads that only 4x4 trucks went up without problems a couple of week ago to find a hiking trailhead. If you are into backcountry a LSD is a must as you can go nearly anywhere with your bus. Laughing

My fiance was Ok, lets really find out now if we can get stuck. I was thinking this is really a test and we did it fine.

Darryl at AA sourced it out of Florida, I have forgotten the Mfg's name. Its a high quality unit and a gear LSD not a plate type like the ZF units. I am sure you could order it as a option when buses were new.
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Last edited by Bleyseng on Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Limited slip / locking differential? Reply with quote

Several years ago, I recall reading of the Quaife limited-slip differential, for rear-engined VW transaxles, which was available through Autocavan, in England, but since they ceased trading, I hadn't heard or seen anything more about them.

http://www.quaife.co.uk/

http://www.quaife.co.uk/What-is-a-Quaife-ATB-differential

http://www.quaife.co.uk/Distributors

http://www.quaife.co.uk/USA


Here's a quote from their website:

« The Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential's unique design offers maximum traction, improves handling and steering, and puts the power where it is needed most. A definite advantage, whether on the track or on the street. »

« The Quaife differential is extremely strong and durable, and since it is gear-operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly and regular replacement. There is no maintenance required to the unit, so you can fit and forget. »

« The Quaife differential is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the cars towards its limits. »


Here is the application, for the 1968~79 VW Type 2:

http://www.quaife.co.uk/VW-T2-Van-Combi-37T-spline-ATB-differential

Volkswagen T2 Combi 37T spline Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential
Product code: QDF4R/37
Catalogue Page: 10
Manufacturers: VW
£561.35 (Unit price exc. VAT)
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Last edited by NASkeet on Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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Jeff Geisen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... the Haynes late transporter manual has some information on bus trans axles and LSD facts.

Chapter 5 section 9 explains the limited slip (plate type) that was a factory option. On the bottom of page 91 is the normal differential exploded view, the on the next page is the LSD exploded view.

The first page in chapter 5 states a CC identification code for factory LSD, CA normal type diff for up to August 73 and CN normal after August 73.
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSD was an option on bays since at least 1973, possibly earlier. I think most were sold for use on military vehicles and darn few of those ever made it to the US. I don't think I've ever even heard of one for sale, but I've seen the parts in the parts manual. Probably built by ZF ( Zahnrad Fabrik- it means "gear maker" -a German gear and transmission builder), they used plates much like American ones. You might actually find one on German Ebay or possibly with a wanted ad on theSamba.
The Quaife is a modern invention and might work pretty well.
AA Transaxle and many others could help you with that.
Syncros used a manual, vacuum applied locker. I might be possible to put those parts into an 091 case. Maybe, maybe not, because the 091 also has the reverse idler in the final drive section while the 091/1 used in the syncro does not.
Cutting brakes would be the poor man's fix. When the old farmer felt his right wheels start sspinning, he'd just push on the right brake to slow it down and put the power thru to the left. You could do the same with a split hand brake handle. Not all that difficult, but it would be tempting to put the handles down by the seat like a vanagon.
Finally, the very first Syncro, or maybe more properly, the Syncro's grandfather, WAS a bay. It's in the VW museum, I've seen a picture in the Gallery.
Al
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rjonas
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:
Several years ago, I recall reading of the Quaife limited-slip differential, for rear-engined VW transaxles, which was available through Autocavan, in England, but since they ceased trading, I hadn't heard or seen anything more about them.

http://www.quaife.co.uk/


Wow, that thing is narly. Will start saving my pennys for one.
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melville
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget these guys:

http://www.peloquins.com/images/batched/091%20498%20006A%20001.jpg

They say 091. It may work in 002--I think the diff is the same, just the rest that's different.
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jmstu76
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was doing the same research a while back. I found a supplier of LSD for the 091 trans. Its in my monologue thread here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263768&highlight=
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

melville wrote:
Don't forget these guys:

http://www.peloquins.com/images/batched/091%20498%20006A%20001.jpg

They say 091. It may work in 002--I think the diff is the same, just the rest that's different.

I have a Peloquin LSD in my '95 Jetta. Wonderful device. Love it! Makes cornering even more fun on the back roads Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:03 am    Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, Limited Slip Differentials Reply with quote

Here are links to recent articles in the Canadian Driver, on-line motoring magazine, about locking differentials and limited-slip differentials, including the Torsen torque-sensing differential, which is or was commonly employed by Audi:


http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/070912.htm

Jim Kerr & Chris Chase, "Locking differentials", Canadian Driver, 12th September 2007


http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010410.htm

Jim Kerr, "Limited Slip Differentials", Canadian Driver, Friday 7th November 2008.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Torsen differential uses a combination of gears to split the torque between the axles rather than apply clutches.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

melville wrote:
Don't forget these guys:

http://www.peloquins.com/images/batched/091%20498%20006A%20001.jpg

They say 091. It may work in 002--I think the diff is the same, just the rest that's different.


Just resurrecting an old thread instead of starting a new one.


Is this true? Will the peloquins LSD work on an 002 tranny? I have an 002 transmission that I am thinking about getting LSD for.
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