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chuckfoo
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 40
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 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:26 pm Post subject: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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Hey Folks. I have a lowered early split bus. 4” narrowed limebug beam, dog back strut relocators, LimeBug air struts with beam through rods on flipped spindles.
The turning radius is horrendous. Three issues seem to be the culprit. 1) Steering stabilizer is too long at full compression. 2) The swing lever hits the Limebug steering bump stops welded into the beam. 3) The larges issue being the steering arms of the spindles hit the air strut bodies.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how you remedy this issue of the steering arms of the spindles hitting the shocks?
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widehatch
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2007
Posts: 777
Location: Memphis, TN aka The Armpit of the South
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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those "air strut" things are your problem. the lower bracket is in the way. either mount it to the spindle where the shock is supposed to mount or remove all together. if you want air ride there are better ways to do it than your current set up.
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6248
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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well thats a stupid design. I hope you didn't pay much for that!
get a regular air-ride beam.
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chuckfoo
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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| sled wrote: |
well thats a stupid design. I hope you didn't pay much for that!
get a regular air-ride beam. |
Jake, Limebug has a front "air ride kit" for Bay windows which uses these air struts and a shock relocator they've designed. A year and a half ago I reached out to them and they said they would be developing a similar kit for the split window folks, which uses their existing beam, Titan throughrods, and a redesigned lower shock relocator they said would be available in December of 2019. After waiting and pushing for their relocator that never arrived (and I think got shelved), I simply was forced to use DogBack lower shock relocators and try to make it work.
Regular air beams aren't super easy to come across. There's really only Wagenswest which has an extensive wait list and waiting period while also limited to 3" of travel. Dubfab has a frightening history and to this day reviews are similarly sketchy. Airkewld has decent travel and work along a similar methodology - however I don't understand how their system circumnavigates these turning radius issues when it looks like that kit only relocates the upper shock mount and uses an air shock which is essentially the same. |
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chuckfoo
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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| widehatch wrote: |
| those "air strut" things are your problem. the lower bracket is in the way. either mount it to the spindle where the shock is supposed to mount or remove all together. if you want air ride there are better ways to do it than your current set up. |
Outside of a Wagenswest or Demon moto hydraulic setup... what are the better ways? The Limebug Bay Window air setup is this design, I'm curious how they haven't had similar issues. |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6248
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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well if you're going to keep that suspension setup there isn't many options..
first you'll have to remove the travel stops on the center of the beam allowing the swing lever to travel as far as it needs to.
then you'll have to modify the steering arm on the spindle so that it clears the bottom of the air strut. best bet would be to cut it off clean at the body of the spindle and replace it with a chunk of straight 5/8" steel that has a tapered hole in the end, this would eliminate the bend in the arm thats interfering. Of course with that much heavy welding you'll probably want to make sure the spindles haven't warped.
Dogback also makes their own airbeams, maybe they would be quicker than WagensWest? Ive never really cared for the WW design anyway.. And DubFab is a whole other subject.
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widehatch
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2007
Posts: 777
Location: Memphis, TN aka The Armpit of the South
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6248
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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Are those really solid bar stock all the way through the bottom tube? 
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chuckfoo
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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Ooooh... good find. I forgot about these guys. |
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chuckfoo
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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| sled wrote: |
then you'll have to modify the steering arm on the spindle so that it clears the bottom of the air strut.
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Thanks, Jake. I'm glad you chimed in... I was thinking the same. I've reached out to our T2B friends to see how they've cleared the steering arm as well.
What do you think of these two options:
1) Asking Dogback to make a lower strut relocation bracket that shifts the mounting point upwards as to clear the steering arm? What chaos do I unleash by moving that lower mounting location instead of changing the steering arm?
2) Hybrid spindles by our friend B at Type_E Moto? If the bay window kit "works well", can't I plug the T2B trailing arms in with the hybrid spindles, use the Limebug relocators and essentially be running the "same" environment as the bay window folks?
Ugh.. sorry to ask you all these questions, Jake. I had expected Limebug to have this kit dialed in by this point. The SBS forums are pretty quiet on air ride topics and you're the only one I know of that's played with a variety of different setups. |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6248
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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yes, rebuilding the shock relocating bracket is also an option. The problem you will run into there, is the suspension will not drop as low as it does currently, because the strut will bottom out sooner.
The Type-E hybrid from suspension works amazing for a static suspension bus. My first concern would be how much suspension travel there is without balljoint bind on the top or bottom. I looked up your struts and they appear to have 6" of stroke, which equates to more than that out at the linkpin, or for sake of discussion..the balljoint. IF the balljoints could allow the suspension to articulate this much, then yes I would absolutely say trying the hybrid suspension would be a much better choice. The way Brian has designed the spindles, the steering arm is BELOW the balljoint and trailing arm, where as your current setup has the steering arm ABOVE, causing it to foul out. I see no reason why the shock relocation brackets could not be adapted to bay window lower control arms. Keep in mind, bay window control arms will not just slide into your existing beam, and his entire front suspension is designed as a package. Mixing and matching often asks for head scratching and/or trouble.
but you're already head scratching so maybe its worth looking into.
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chuckfoo
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2015
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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| Thanks so much, Jake. |
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 580
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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| I dropped my bus 3.5 (flipped) w stock beam w SACO disc's, and have a lot of travel and after tuning my Koni's (4) this is my first Bus that rides so nice it's stupid. Turning is just as it was stock, but it handles much better. I attribute this to the Koni's and always greasing-up the front at oil change. 185/55/15 Yokohama AVID Ascend GT in front w 5.5" modified offset Bug smoothies & 205/65/15 rear on IRS. stock sway bar. I just can't see any lower w/o upping the steering box-I did gain 1/2 " with 15's from stock 14's. 2cents |
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calilivin65
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2013
Posts: 43
Location: fontana
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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| Check out Justin @volksfab on Instagram he can build you the bagged beam you need at a cheaper cost I’m sure you’ll be highly impressed with his work once you see it |
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DubStyle
SBS Hit Squad
Joined: July 26, 2003
Posts: 6250
Location: SBS headquarters: Missery
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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Jake aka Sled won't steer you wrong. NO pun intended! He knows his shit, even if he went all SHN on us lowered guys. LoL
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Anthony
SBS #1
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faux
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2006
Posts: 44
Location: UK, South Wales
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Lowered Bus Turning Radius |
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Did you ever resolve this?
I tried the shock relocators and could not steer at all, the spindle hit the relocator. |
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