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agnhare78
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2009
Posts: 2
Location: front royal va.
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 Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and reliable? |
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| I've owned vw's for a long time but they were all water cooled. Ive always wanted a air cooled and finally bought a 58 a few months ago. I own a 78 rabbit also that has run a best time of 12.01 in the 1/4 and a 7.81@94mph in the 1/8 and i can still drive the car almost anywhere i want. I was just wondering what it would take to maybe make my beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and would it be very reliable? |
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wildman1
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 674
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agnhare78
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2009
Posts: 2
Location: front royal va.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| cool thanks that helps allot |
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carcrazed
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 958
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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A Rabbit in the lower 12's ? Amazing. That is a car I used to see around every turn, but now...haven't seen one in years! Good luck on the bug!!
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles
"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong." |
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Alan_U
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: Re: beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and reliable? |
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| agnhare78 wrote: |
| I've owned vw's for a long time but they were all water cooled. Ive always wanted a air cooled and finally bought a 58 a few months ago. I own a 78 rabbit also that has run a best time of 12.01 in the 1/4 and a 7.81@94mph in the 1/8 and i can still drive the car almost anywhere i want. I was just wondering what it would take to maybe make my beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and would it be very reliable? |
Thats impressive for a rabbit. I guess its good that the 78's were lighter than the later 83's. Driving a car everywhere is one thing but retaining reliablility is always gonna be compromised a bit as you push the envelope.
You can easily build a high 12 second beetle and still retain very good reliability. Mid 13's would require little work.
In your light 58 chassis you can put a well mannered 2276cc and shift at 6800-7000rpms and be in the 12's.
An example:
I suggest a welded german stroker crank which will cost more than the china forged cranks. At least at the moment we still have people putting the efforts in making a welded crank for our beloved cars. Get the best lifters you can for longevity and superior materials to take the abuse of valve float and stiff valve spring pressure. Sleeve the lifter bores (engine case) with silicon/bronze to assure longevity with excellent bushing material. This way you will not get worn/oval lifter bores from sideload.
DMS or DPR 82mm or 84mm (2332cc)welded crank (buick journal)
mahle 94mm p/c kit
Magnesium case sleeved with silicon bronze or heavier cast aluminum.
Fk8 or fk10 camshaft
CB 28mm lightweight lifters (best cheap lifters) or
Udo becker German tool steel lifters (requires no cam/lifter breakin)$$$
best on the market for longevity.
5.4 or 5.5 Hbeam SCAT rods with 3/8 rodbolts (or any company with 3/8 bolts)
Kobelshmidt german main bearings or red box mahles.
ACL australian conrod bearings.
HEADS can be another topic and essay all together. You can buy off the shelf CNC heads with excellent results but I always prefer KROC hand ported heads. Many good headporters on this site aswell.
A 4.12r/p, 9tooth stock 1st/2nd mainshaft, 1.48, 1.14 tranny will drive on the freeway and still pull hard at the track.
Lotsa combos and variations.
_________________
11.92sec pump gas true daily driver. Who says it cant be done.
No more time for VW's....... |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3509
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: Re: beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and reliable? |
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| Alan_U wrote: |
A 4.12r/p, 9tooth stock 1st/2nd mainshaft, 1.48, 1.14 tranny will drive on the freeway and still pull hard at the track.
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No offense, but a 1.14 4th on a 4.12 R&P will get old real quick on the freeway (that's 4000 rpm with a 26" rear tire). I had a 1.04 4th on a 3.88...65mph was droning on the edge of annoyance, sustaining 80mph was unbearable. I could tolerate 55mph all day long (the old Federal speed limit + sunny days = heaven), but any faster than that and I was wishing I had a taller gear.
Unfortunately, that's the trade-off between a car you drive regularly/daily, and one that pulls fast times at the track. Unless you step up to a 5-speed, your 4-speed gear choices are going to compromise either your sanity at freeway speeds or your E/T potential at the track.
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Alan_U
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: Re: beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and reliable? |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
| Alan_U wrote: |
A 4.12r/p, 9tooth stock 1st/2nd mainshaft, 1.48, 1.14 tranny will drive on the freeway and still pull hard at the track.
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No offense, but a 1.14 4th on a 4.12 R&P will get old real quick on the freeway. I had a 1.04 4th on a 3.88...65mph was droning on the edge of annoyance, sustaining 80mph was unbearable. I could tolerate 55mph all day long (the old Federal speed limt + sunny days = heaven), but any faster than that and I was wishing I had a taller gear.
Unfortunately, that's the trade-off between a car you drive regularly/daily, and one that pulls fast times at the track. Unless you step up to a 5-speed, your 4-speed gear choices are going to compromise your sanity at freeway speeds or your E/T potential at the track. |
offence taken.....  just kidding.
I was kinda basing it on a typical 55mph freeway. I had a 73 superbeetle and it was very pleasant on the freeway with that gearing w/ 24" tires.
I'm just fortunate that in my area I do not need to hit alot of freeways to go where I have to go.
My 4.12rp recommendation will give more zip off the line. Ya theres always trade offs.
_________________
11.92sec pump gas true daily driver. Who says it cant be done.
No more time for VW's....... |
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DarthWeber
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3509
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and reliable? |
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| Alan_U wrote: |
I was kinda basing it on a typical 55mph freeway. |
I don't know if there are any "typical" 55mph freeway's left in America 
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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wildman1
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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A 2276cc with 48s, CB Wedge ports, 1.4/K8, 9.1CR, 5.4 rods and 1.75" merge will net 180-200 with proper attention. If you connect that to a 4.12 stock stack box in your 58 with 165's, there's 12's everyday AND a driver with little to no worries if you change the oil and bolt on a GOOD set of carbs from the start.
It's been done many times and still a solid combo! 
Build it one part at a time, buy a predetermined kit or have a shop bolt up a longblock -turnkey mill. Whatever you decide, DO NOT SHORT CUT by saving $200 off the top, that's minor cash when going that far and it WILL bite you in the ass the second or third time you drop the hammer and that Ricer laughs as you puke in traffic!
Good Luck  |
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DarthWeber
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| NICE!! I like that combo. |
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Alan_U
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: beetle a mid 13sec car in the 1/4 and reliable? |
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| Stripped66 wrote: |
| Alan_U wrote: |
I was kinda basing it on a typical 55mph freeway. |
I don't know if there are any "typical" 55mph freeway's left in America |
ok ok I guess your right. The highways can vary in my area from 80km's to 100km's. Shows you how much I venture on the freeway.
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11.92sec pump gas true daily driver. Who says it cant be done.
No more time for VW's....... |
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