Can a 1973 convertible have a "4" as the third number in the VIN

[lastchancevw]

Hey i hate to float this question, but can you help me settle and argument?

Someone is selling a 1973 convertible online, and they showed the VIN plate in the front. In the VIN plate the third number is a 4 and i was like "well, i think that means it's a 1974, but maybe someone put a 73 body on a 74 pan and used the numbers off a 74?"

And they all got super mad at me and they were screaming up and down at how super original and verified it all was, and i was like all like uh, VW was pretty consistent with their VIN system in the 70s (up until that stuff got standardized in like the 80s I think).


From the pix, it's got non-5 mph bumpers, and 73 style seat backs and the glove box door has the round knob. (though the whole interior has been redone) It is, however in Italy so it's possible that the later models wouldn't have had the big round bumper brackets. It does have tiny directionals on the front fenders but the giant ones were a US spec thing anyway so i don't expect that to be what we're used to in the US.

At least the second vin number is s 5 so that's right. People can put Convertibles on sedan pans and oh gosh, what a mess that is if you use the VIN off the pan in that case

Problem is, this whole facebook group (link below) is all sales scams and AI slop and people asking "is this car for sale?" and "how much do you want for (this clearly AI generated) car." And it's getting terrible and i just see someone posting a pix of a car where the VIN doesn't jive with the car i and something seems a little fishy,

https://www.facebook.com/groups/290967204006480/permalink/394084130361453

Anyway any insight would be good. I am aware of the pages on the Samba about decoding VIN, i just dunno if there were exceptions to this rule, and mostly i just want to know if my instinct is right about the car. Also, on the equivalent of the title it says it's a "1300", which technially i would guess that it should be a "1303" but a lot of the time that information gets changed around when different owners title their cars. Like my 74 Super beetle is a "SUPERBEE" when i probably could've gotten it changed to a 1303 if i wanted it to.

Thanks
-Tara
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1970 Commercial Kombi
1971 rusty Westfalia (retired for now)
1974 super beetle
1969 delta blue deluxe bus, half-camperized and being worked on
1971 Squareback (my newest acquisition!)

[KTPhil]

Likely it was made in late calendar year 1973, making it a 1974 model, and a "4" in the VIN.

Care to share more of the VIN? We can determine the month it was built from here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php

Some countries (and even states in the USA) have used manufacturing date on registration, not the model year, so this doesn't necessarily indicate anything shady.
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Current Fleet:
- '71 Fastback
- '69 Westfalia
Retired:
- '67 Beetle
- '65 Beetle (x2)
- '65 Bus
- '71 Squareback

[Epilog79]

What an interesting convertible. There are so many inconsistent parts there to make it a true mystery. The front bumpers have the 74 large opening for a 5mph shock, yet they have solid mounted bumper brackets for 73. The bumper has the 74 and up impact strip but is missing the end caps. The rear end looks like it has the solid bumper brackets with correct narrow slit openings of the 73.
Also the rear bumper has the later impact strip too.
The interior dash has a clock which was not offered in the 73 or 74 years. Those only came later in the US in the Champaign Editions and 78 and 79.
Car looks very good condition. I like the interior upgrades etc.
I know my US Super convertibles pretty well. Euro cars can be different and I don't know everything. This has parts from 73 and parts from 74. Maybe it had some accident history to explain the different bumper bracket openings.

[jinx758]

The only ViN that matters is the one stamped on the chassis under the back seat. These cars can be rebodied.

If the #s don't match that's ok BUT if the chassis #s don't match the title ...

RUN AWAY ... !

good luck... stay safe

jinx
_________________
" It's not valuable unless you learn something from an experience. " Henry Ford

It's not unlike the same difference ...

My Craigslist rescued 100 footer :
1971 Standard Bug
1776cc dual port
034 distributor
38mm EGAS Carburetor

[Bruce]

There's nothing mysterious about this car.
The car is an early 74 model year, first registered on Oct 5, 1973. It is common in other countries for them to refer to the year of first registration as the model year.
Non-USA cars got 73 and earlier bumpers all the way up to the end of production. To minimize parts inventory, one type of front fender was used that was capable of accommodating the US 5mph bumpers and the early bumpers. Note the odd rubber grommet that fits the triangle hole but has the slit for the bumper. This is a genuine VW part.
The rubber impact strip in the bumper first appeared in 71, so nothing odd there.
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[lastchancevw]

Aha! So I am right, more or less.

Interesting- If you look in European beetle brochures you will find that the narrow style bumpers are used but up to the end, but i have noticed that something weird was happenign with the hole in fender for the bracket

Well, as to "the only number that matters is under the back seat:" actually the opposite is sort of true- Chassis and floors rot away and get periodically replaced. Lets say you have a beetle that's rusted out on the bottom but you have the title for it, and well, you take the engine out and put the body on another car you have that rolled over but the floors and chassis were still good. In that situation I'd use the body numbers, Because to me, it would be the same car just with new floors and chassis tunnel.

I'm aware that it's possible that the "law" says something different but of course the reality of what happens out there is a lot of cars the pans and the bodies don't match up.

I think what's happened in this car is that the car is a 1974 but at some point someone saw that it was made in 73 and thought that meant it was a 73. There is one other mystery though- i think there's a picture of whatever is the equivalent of the title and says it was made in May 1973, so yeah, still a little fishy. CORRECTION- that 5-10-73 is actually October 1973, they put the day first, then month.

My bad. still, Ok so they should have it down as a 1974 model and not having that right doesnt' mean something is wrong.


But don't worry, this is not a car i was thinking of buying, it is in Italy, and I'm in Massachusetts which is last time i checked, nowhere near Italy. I was just noticing on this facebook group that there's a lot of fishy stuff going on.



Thanks for the input
_________________
1970 Commercial Kombi
1971 rusty Westfalia (retired for now)
1974 super beetle
1969 delta blue deluxe bus, half-camperized and being worked on
1971 Squareback (my newest acquisition!)

[H2OSB]

The number under the back seat is on the "spine" of the chassis, and does NOT get replaced. This IS the car's true VIN. If that number does match the VIN on the title, something incorrect or fraudulent has occurred. As Bruce stated, these cars can be rebodied, and is definitely possible to have different numbers in various locations, however, the title must match the number stamped on the chassis under the middle of the back seat, just forward of the access hole for the shift coupler, for the car to be legally registered in the States, unless there is some kind of salvage title (sorry for the long sentence, but I'm saving my punctuation for marriage).

H2OSB
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(o\_i_/o) Funny thing about pigs, they're cleaner than you and me. Well....you.

[Beeble1]