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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: Basic top end rebuild - 1600 dual port to a 1641 single port |
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Alright guys, this is really not that big of a deal but this engine looked like crap when i started so i wanted to document my progress for those beginners out there looking at their stock engine with no hope.
This engine came out of a 74' beetle, the entire motor was taken out of the car..... valve covers OFF and painted Chevy orange.
My hands were far too dirty before this point to grab a camera and shoot pictures but you will see a short block with all of the tin taken off of it and just down to the cylinders. Once i got it down to this point i took some pictures and headed to my local parts store to purchase a CASE of brake parts cleaner.
I'm very unfamiliar with the auto stick cars but im seeing some things on this engine that i haven't seen before so I'm assuming it was an autostick. The case had what appears to be a switch with a wire attached to it back by the flywheel on the passenger side. It also had something attached to the carb immediately in front of it which then attached to the pulley guard, it was not hooked up from there. Assuming its for a vacuum system?
As of right now my plans are pretty simple. This is going to be a basic top end rebuild with a conversion to single port. I've found the sp's have more pulling power and torque at higher speeds and this car is going to be driven on the highway a lot and will need some extra oomph for passing. It's going in a 74' Std as in the picture, it dropped a valve in its previous engine. Hopefully i will be able to get my girlfriend out in the garage to take more shots to help document the process better.
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perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| As hot as it looks like it got its time to split the case and fully evaluate the disaster. Also look for why it burnt up; missing tin, bad distributor etc. You have an unattached EGR valve and plumbing and a factory magnetic pick up sensor for the VW diagnostic tool. Keep it a 1600 or bump up to an 1776. |
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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| perrib wrote: |
| As hot as it looks like it got its time to split the case and fully evaluate the disaster. Also look for why it burnt up; missing tin, bad distributor etc. You have an unattached EGR valve and plumbing and a factory magnetic pick up sensor for the VW diagnostic tool. Keep it a 1600 or bump up to an 1776. |
Actually when i purchased the engine it was in a running driving 74' std, It ran great! I took the p&c's off and though they have carbon on them they were in pretty good shape. It was a complete engine before i took the pictures all of the tin in place.
The cam and lifters look brand new and being how it ran before i took it apart I don't expect any problems. I really just took it apart to clean it off but it turned into a top end rebuild.
Corey |
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perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| It's my eyes I thought they looked to be scored from all that carbon and assumed the bearings might be ugly. It would still be worth removing a rod bearing just to see.. |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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That's no auto stick engine. The things your posted were a "pickup" on the case for VW diagnostic at the dealer to plug into and the part on the manifold is EGR/smog device.
| perrib wrote: |
| As hot as it looks like it got its time to split the case and fully evaluate the disaster. Also look for why it burnt up; missing tin, bad distributor etc. You have an unattached EGR valve and plumbing and a factory magnetic pick up sensor for the VW diagnostic tool. Keep it a 1600 or bump up to an 1776 |
I agree... your far enough along on the tear down you should split it and clean it up right and see what's inside. It's very hard to tell if it's worth taking a chance building on a used bottom end like that. |
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1961bluebug
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 1137
Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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at least the Hoover bit is there 
_________________
|82x94|
1961 Deluxe beetle, 1971 type 181, 1968 T2a Baywindow, 1973 Type 147 "Swiss Fridolin"(sold), 1966 Deluxe sedan (sold), 1983 "Silver Bug" edition (sold), 1961 beetle (sold) |
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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: |
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See.... that is what i dislike about this board..... people encouraging me to do stuff i want to do but shouldn't because my pocket book says so..... shit..... who listens to their wallet anyways?
I'll take a closer look at it this weekend and might consider the full break down.
.....Hell... might as well toss a new cam and straight gears in it right?
Corey |
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anthracitedub
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 3241
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| I would just do a clean stock rebuild on it...if its just going to be a A&B car. I know your probably just kidding...but dont worry about the str8 cuts. |
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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| keifernet wrote: |
That's no auto stick engine. The things your posted were a "pickup" on the case for VW diagnostic at the dealer to plug into and the part on the manifold is EGR/smog device.
| perrib wrote: |
| As hot as it looks like it got its time to split the case and fully evaluate the disaster. Also look for why it burnt up; missing tin, bad distributor etc. You have an unattached EGR valve and plumbing and a factory magnetic pick up sensor for the VW diagnostic tool. Keep it a 1600 or bump up to an 1776 |
I agree... your far enough along on the tear down you should split it and clean it up right and see what's inside. It's very hard to tell if it's worth taking a chance building on a used bottom end like that. |
EGR smog devise? That means this probably came out of a 75'+ right? Never had to deal with that new of an engine before.
Also, what would this "pickup" show if a dealer plugged into it?
hey.... i just remembered I already have a new cam, lifters and bearings sitting around..... |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| BelialConsummation wrote: |
See.... that is what i dislike about this board..... people encouraging me to do stuff i want to do but shouldn't because my pocket book says so..... shit..... who listens to their wallet anyways?
I'll take a closer look at it this weekend and might consider the full break down.
.....Hell... might as well toss a new cam and straight gears in it right?
Corey |
Chances are that the cam and lifters are worn out... Rarely is an old engine that looks like that one does worth just slapping a top end on. And straight cuts would be a waste of $ on a 1600 build IMHO.
I was just giving you honest opinion on what I have seen and experienced in the many years I have been working on these cars.
I have seen far more "I'm just going to do the top end" builds fail and waste the time and money involved than I have seen successful engines that lasted for a decent length of time. Not saying it does not happen but it's the exception to the rule.
This thread is a good example...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2455023 |
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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| anthracitedub wrote: |
| I would just do a clean stock rebuild on it...if its just going to be a A&B car. I know your probably just kidding...but dont worry about the str8 cuts. |
That's what im thinking, I've got enough crank and rod assemblies to find a few good ones.
I love me some straight cuts! Why not? Give it a great sound and I really don't like reusing the stock gears. Seen far too many of them fail.
Corey |
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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| keifernet wrote: |
| BelialConsummation wrote: |
See.... that is what i dislike about this board..... people encouraging me to do stuff i want to do but shouldn't because my pocket book says so..... shit..... who listens to their wallet anyways?
I'll take a closer look at it this weekend and might consider the full break down.
.....Hell... might as well toss a new cam and straight gears in it right?
Corey |
Chances are that the cam and lifters are worn out... Rarely is an old engine that looks like that one does worth just slapping a top end on. And straight cuts would be a waste of $ on a 1600 build IMHO.
I was just giving you honest opinion on what I have seen and experienced in the many years I have been working on these cars.
I have seen far more "I'm just going to do the top end" builds fail and waste the time and money involved than I have seen successful engines that lasted for a decent length of time. Not saying it does not happen but it's the exception to the rule.
This thread is a good example...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2455023 |
Thanks for your input! I'll end up tearing it down, i forgot i had all of the parts lying around already so why not right?
Corey |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| BelialConsummation wrote: |
| keifernet wrote: |
That's no auto stick engine. The things your posted were a "pickup" on the case for VW diagnostic at the dealer to plug into and the part on the manifold is EGR/smog device.
| perrib wrote: |
| As hot as it looks like it got its time to split the case and fully evaluate the disaster. Also look for why it burnt up; missing tin, bad distributor etc. You have an unattached EGR valve and plumbing and a factory magnetic pick up sensor for the VW diagnostic tool. Keep it a 1600 or bump up to an 1776 |
I agree... your far enough along on the tear down you should split it and clean it up right and see what's inside. It's very hard to tell if it's worth taking a chance building on a used bottom end like that. |
EGR smog devise? That means this probably came out of a 75'+ right? Never had to deal with that new of an engine before.
Also, what would this "pickup" show if a dealer plugged into it?
hey.... i just remembered I already have a new cam, lifters and bearings sitting around..... |
That is late 73 added EGR on the manifold. Some 73 and then 74 had it. 75 on USA spec would have Fuel Injection.
The wire is just an inductive pickup/RPM sensor used on the later model cases. Most of the time you see the sensor still in the case but the wire is clipped off. |
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perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| BelialConsummation wrote: |
See.... that is what i dislike about this board..... people encouraging me to do stuff i want to do but shouldn't because my pocket book says so..... shit..... who listens to their wallet anyways?
I'll take a closer look at it this weekend and might consider the full break down.
.....Hell... might as well toss a new cam and straight gears in it right?
Corey |
Oh. You wanted the full samba treatment?? And so early in the day?
If your going to put straight cuts in it, you can not stop without acessorizing with titanium valves, 61 mm IDA's and lots of Empi chrome, makes for a great some thing or other. . I could not find the I am smart butt icon.
If you like how it ran just ring it and fix the valve. A cheap fix may last a longer than we are predicting. It would for most people other than myself.
The sensor was for checking timing. The flywheels had two pins sticking out of them for reference. Other things you could check were dwell, rpm voltage. Nothing fancy just save time. |
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BelialConsummation
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| perrib wrote: |
| BelialConsummation wrote: |
See.... that is what i dislike about this board..... people encouraging me to do stuff i want to do but shouldn't because my pocket book says so..... shit..... who listens to their wallet anyways?
I'll take a closer look at it this weekend and might consider the full break down.
.....Hell... might as well toss a new cam and straight gears in it right?
Corey |
Oh. You wanted the full samba treatment?? And so early in the day?
If your going to put straight cuts in it, you can not stop without acessorizing with titanium valves, 61 mm IDA's and lots of Empi chrome, makes for a great some thing or other. . I could not find the I am smart butt icon.
If you like how it ran just ring it and fix the valve. A cheap fix may last a longer than we are predicting. It would for most people other than myself.
The sensor was for checking timing. The flywheels had two pins sticking out of them for reference. Other things you could check were dwell, rpm voltage. Nothing fancy just save time. |
Oh man.... should have expected that haha. I'm going to pull it apart and possibly spring for a counter weighted 69 crank.
Corey |
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thetravman
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2006
Posts: 509
Location: Pounding out center main . . .
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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If you didn't build it yourself then it is always prudent to split the case. I've personally done the top end rebuid on the unknown bottom end. Threw a rod in less than 10000 miles. Ruined nearly everything including the case.
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Mark
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 1523
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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That Chevy orange ought to be good for a few extra hp. It looks like Helen Keller got her hands on a can of Krylon Dayglow Orange.
But anyway, I will echo what others have mentioned and plan on spending more than initially planned. No sense doing this twice.
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www.zwerks.ca |
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