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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: Ebay 2.1 "rebuilt" Gernade |
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Questioned this 'bro if he changed the rod bolts. He replied he magnafluxed the rods and bolts so they are OK.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...OTORS:1123
Yet he did not post the reply...???
I have no idea how one could build a 2.1 for $1165 and turn a $$$
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59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
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RGS Paul
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 681
Location: Los Alamos, NM
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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If he didn't replace the bolts it is a time bomb. Stretch bolts are a one time deal and can't be reused. The rods were probably fine anyway but if he went through the trouble to magnaflux it with the intent to sell there should be pictures.
Rebuilt heads? Which AMC or VW, if VW then there is probably still a problem. Like new pistons and cylinders? Why not put new new in if you are doing a rebuild?
You get what you pay for and I'd call it a core that doesn't have all the bolts stuck. Don't walk, run, to tencent if you need an engine.
Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
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Williamtaylor33
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Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| like new pistons and cylinders |
Thats good stuff....
I guess that's one way you would make money on a 1100 dollar rebuild.
| RGS Paul wrote: |
You get what you pay for. Don't walk, run, to tencent if you need an engine. |
Good advice
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89 Bostig powered syncro westy
Last edited by Williamtaylor33 on Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Williamtaylor33
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Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Looks like the auction ended with buy it now.
I wonder if it was somebody on 'thesamba'?
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89 Bostig powered syncro westy |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
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spookey. 
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59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Nothing wrong with reusing P&C's for a budget rebuild. This aint an aircooled where to do that would be a crime. Welcome to the watercooled world, kiddies, where it's the normal and approved thing to do. Top ends on these run exceptionally cool, grumblings about too many hoses notwithstanding. The OEM pistons are rarely scuffed at all, ring lands hold up very well, and the cylinders I've miked have been as round as round can be. Little to no ridge. So hone and rering and carry on. Big deal, that's not bad practice at all, and it's a far better approach than putting a set of low-comp Cofaps on there. That is, provided the work is done diligently. That's the part you don't know. And how cheap the rings are; no good to skimp there. OEM rings were moly, pretty expensive.
I would be more concerned with the rod bolts, of course, whether the rods were remachined at all, and what kind of shortcuts were taken on the heads. Magnaflux tells you if a piece is cracked; I've never in my life seen a cracked rod. Bent, broken, melted, yes; cracked, never. He claimed new main brngs but might have reused them. That's not all that bad, actually; half the sets I pull out of 2.1's I would gladly reuse in my own engine, they often are near perfect ( I'm running on a used set right now, actually. I'm saving some other nice sets for my own use in the future). Not so rod bearings, of course, but even KS only cost $20. And I'll bet he cheaped out on the oil pump, some really cheapass mainseal in there like the flimsy Elring that comes in the set, used the old cam and maybe cleaned out the lifters at best. I doubt they got reground. The lifters regrind nice and work great if done right; I have regrinds in my own van at the moment. But I would use a clean used cam before I ever reground that. Bad juju there.
The main difference is how many hours were invested in doing the job carefully. We all know how to slam an engine together and let the tolerances fall where they may, but it takes hours and hours more to make it all fit just right. For that price range, you can be sure it was slammed together unless the guy just places zero value on his time.
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Escorial Syncro 
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Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 449
Location: Manitou Springs, CO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
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That ad looks a lot like those from that Jake Lake character, AKA Ken Morgan. Not saying it is, but the photos and pricing are spot-on.
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Joel Lane
1985 Vanagon converted to syncro, ALH TDI w/GTB2056 turbo, Reimo clone top with Westy interior
2002 Toyota Tundra 4x4 |
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mblotz
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 296
Location: D-town, at base of the rocky's
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| joel, my thoughts exactly. |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10002
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: |
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A scary AAZ 1.9 TD
Here's another one from the same seller. Very scary. Using a 1.6 head on a 1.9 will greatly increase the compression ratio due to the smaller pre-chambers. Bad move.
Andrew |
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Volksbulli
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I think this is Jake Lake Parts, Eastern Division. He has a Place in Denver, CO too. I wouldn't jump so quick to conclusions on his products. I got a rebuilt Air-Cooled 2.0 from him. I've had it in my 82' Westy since October 08' and (knock on wood) have had no problems it and it was $975.
I initially was put off by the low price but I talked extensively with him before I laid the Money down. Jake was very very knowledgeable about Vanagons air-cooled and Water-cooled alike. He has been driving VW Busses most his life. Worked on VW's for 35 yrs. The 12month/12kmile warranty is nice too.
I can't remember but I think his son is operating the Ohio operations.
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82' A/C Westfalia
67' Typ 1
96' Golf GL |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I saw an interminable thread about that JakeLake and how he had ripped some folks off, while others felt they had gotten their money's worth. It seemed regardless that he had a kind of fly-by-night way of doing business, popping up from place to place and using different names.
Like I said above, you can rebuild engines just to OEM specs pretty cheaply if you don't value your hours too highly. I notice that folks coming from the ACVW boxer world assume most everything has to be replaced, but that's only generally true of aircooleds because a cool-running AC is still roasting the shit out of every part of the top end and a lot of the bottom. Not so watercooled, or "real world", engines. In the general rebuilding world it is the norm to reuse a lot of parts like P&C's, cams, etc. so long as they check out. But it does take hours and hours to check them out, and you have to wonder how much of that was done. You can be sure that for a $1200 wbx, it doesn't have many more new parts than bearings and rings. You'll be very lucky if it got new exhaust valves. That's a part I would never reuse, ever, but once again, they don't run nearly so hot in a watercooled engine so some people might be tempted to reuse them and they would get away with it a lot of the time.
So there's nothing saying that an $1165 wbx longblock is definitely a time-bomb with a short fuse, but caveat emptor should be the guiding principle here.
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Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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With all this in mind it is YERY likely the 2.1 rod bolts were reused, streaching them again. $1200 for a potential hole in the block.
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Volksbulli
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
Yeah I saw an interminable thread about that JakeLake and how he had ripped some folks off, while others felt they had gotten their money's worth. It seemed regardless that he had a kind of fly-by-night way of doing business, popping up from place to place and using different names.
Like I said above, you can rebuild engines just to OEM specs pretty cheaply if you don't value your hours too highly. I notice that folks coming from the ACVW boxer world assume most everything has to be replaced, but that's only generally true of aircooleds because a cool-running AC is still roasting the shit out of every part of the top end and a lot of the bottom. Not so watercooled, or "real world", engines. In the general rebuilding world it is the norm to reuse a lot of parts like P&C's, cams, etc. so long as they check out. But it does take hours and hours to check them out, and you have to wonder how much of that was done. You can be sure that for a $1200 wbx, it doesn't have many more new parts than bearings and rings. You'll be very lucky if it got new exhaust valves. That's a part I would never reuse, ever, but once again, they don't run nearly so hot in a watercooled engine so some people might be tempted to reuse them and they would get away with it a lot of the time.
So there's nothing saying that an $1165 wbx longblock is definitely a time-bomb with a short fuse, but caveat emptor should be the guiding principle here. |
No no, I hear what you are saying..... I had an ok experience with getting mine from Jake Lake. It was delayed 2 weeks at his shop and about another week when the shipping logistics got f*cked up. I mean I cant complain about the customer service and tech support when installing, I had his personal Cell # and he was always available of course there is a 4 hour time zone difference.
My engine was already a VW Canada Rebuilt engine a it was clean as a pin. I heard that WBX from VW Canada were nicht so gut.
I mean I had my engine out of my 67' typ 1 and I operate on a if you got it out replace it principle. Split the case, New German cam & lifters, bearings were good but replaced them anyways. I put some new 85.5mm Mahle Piston and Cyl set I got for 60bucks a loooong time ago, a new Meyle Oil Pump and 4 new valves, springs and keepers. Heads were Mexican VW Single port?? Didn't know VW had Single port Mexican heads.
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82' A/C Westfalia
67' Typ 1
96' Golf GL |
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mblotz
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Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 296
Location: D-town, at base of the rocky's
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| its taken me a better part of 1.5 years to get a jake lake (AKA ken morgan, aka JDP--i wonder what his real name is?) molested van back to a safe to operate vehicle. we are talking EVERY nut and bolt has had to be gone through. luckily for me in knew exactly what i was getting into since i had seen the workmanship before being in the vanagon community in denver for a long time. we are talking a history from the eurocar era (previous name) that involved 3 grenaded motors. leaving it sitting for 2 years on the last one. its easy to talk a big talk, hide behind the big Jebus, and make it sound like a knowledgable, trust worthy wrench, sounds like some presidents we've had to |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10002
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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I would also add that a 12 month warranty from a no-name with bad feedback on eBay is worth less than the energy being used to display it on your LCD monitor.
Andrew |
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calcite5
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Joined: August 24, 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I find it funny that most of the "negative feedback" comes from a small minority...I have dealt w/ Ken and have found him to be a phenomenal mechanic...BTW...a little tidbit on Ken...he has an MB to go along with an electrical engineering degree
A little more info...Ken is a wholesaler of 2.1's and other assorted VW engines...he has access to a large volume of cores.
My understanding is that he and his team dissemble the cores and hand pick the best components for his basic rebuild...i.e. what you see on ebay
Everything is double checked, cleaned and put back together w/ the care of a 35 year VW wrencher.
Ken is the real deal...and yes, he did have some mishaps earlier in the decade. This was due to a piston program that he had developed. The test cars seem to be running exquisite and the program went into full swing until a flaw in the piston manufacturing specs was discovered. The machine shop was to blame, but Ken took the heat...and replaced the engines that were already out on the streets...the financial burden of the recall took his shop down. So it wasn't a run for the hills as I have read
After a slow rebuilding process Ken is now getting back into the game.
Hope that sheds some light on the subject.
If you have any questions or comments...post it |
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Volksbulli
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| calcite5 wrote: |
I find it funny that most of the "negative feedback" comes from a small minority...I have dealt w/ Ken and have found him to be a phenomenal mechanic...BTW...a little tidbit on Ken...he has an MB to go along with an electrical engineering degree
A little more info...Ken is a wholesaler of 2.1's and other assorted VW engines...he has access to a large volume of cores.
My understanding is that he and his team dissemble the cores and hand pick the best components for his basic rebuild...i.e. what you see on ebay
Everything is double checked, cleaned and put back together w/ the care of a 35 year VW wrencher.
Ken is the real deal...and yes, he did have some mishaps earlier in the decade. This was due to a piston program that he had developed. The test cars seem to be running exquisite and the program went into full swing until a flaw in the piston manufacturing specs was discovered. The machine shop was to blame, but Ken took the heat...and replaced the engines that were already out on the streets...the financial burden of the recall took his shop down. So it wasn't a run for the hills as I have read
After a slow rebuilding process Ken is now getting back into the game.
Hope that sheds some light on the subject.
If you have any questions or comments...post it |
THANK YOU!! Glad to see that someone else agrees with me. I do remember him telling me the above story. I believe he does do a lot of R&D with his engines if I remember right. Like my 2.0 got ratio rockers on the exhaust for the lift of a 914 cam to help clear the exhaust out due to the in efficient port design. I you actually talked to him, he knows his stuff.
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82' A/C Westfalia
67' Typ 1
96' Golf GL |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10002
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| calcite5 wrote: |
| If you have any questions or comments...post it |
With regard to the "rebuilt AAZ" motor linked above:
How is the overly increased compression ratio of a 1.6 head on a 1.9 block dealt with?
How is the interface between the extra oil return hole on the hyd block and the extra coolant hole in the mechanical lifter head dealt with?
Andrew |
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Escorial Syncro
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 449
Location: Manitou Springs, CO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Calcite#5,
Welcome to our community. In your first post ever on the forum you wrote:
"Ken is the real deal...and yes, he did have some mishaps earlier in the decade."
Earlier in the decade? How about in the last six months? I have a friend that pre-paid Ken/Jake for an AAZ motor to be installed in his syncro and it took help from the Denver Police to get the syncro back. Last I heard he was still trying to recover the money for the work and engine he never got. He posted the story to several lists and forums, maybe even this one.
I'm all for second chances and fresh starts and folks making a living. But if you, I mean Ken/Jake, keep screwing fellow vanagon owners, I feel I have to let people know who their dealing with.
Joel
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Joel Lane
1985 Vanagon converted to syncro, ALH TDI w/GTB2056 turbo, Reimo clone top with Westy interior
2002 Toyota Tundra 4x4 |
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