| Author |
Message |
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Lower control arm bushing install.... |
 |
|
I had decided to replace my upper control arm bushings and this of course has led to new upper aned lower ball joints and lower control arm bushings...My question is, the bushings I picked up, don't seem to the same as the stock bushings. Looking at the pictures of my control arm with old bushing still in, the lips on the new bushing are about 5mm shorter than the control arm.
These do not lool like they were made right or maybe the are for the old style control arms? My Vanagon is a '89 and I know VW made two styles of control arms. Has anyone replaced their bushings and had the same issue?
Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kenmag
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Toronto, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Don't worry, those are the right parts. they 'deform' to look like your old bushings once they are pressed in.
_________________
87GL Westy/suby ej22
87GL tintop/suby ej22
05 Golf TDI
95 jetta GLX |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
kenmag may be right, and maybe it's just one of those optical delusions, but don't the core bushings in the new ones appear to be longer than the old ones? That's a bigger problem. Better measure before you go further; you may yet have the wrong parts.
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is death to doctrine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 18744
Location: Retired South Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I too would check. They appear to be from an early, Rabbit/Scirocco. The rubber can deform, but the overall length should not change when pressed in. The overall length is determined by the steel bushing. I don't have my ETK handy to check the part number. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tencentlife wrote: |
| don't the core bushings in the new ones appear to be longer than the old ones? TBetter measure before you go further; you may yet have the wrong parts. |
I bought these from ImportCarParts.com when I got my Upper Control Arm Bushings. After further inspection, I am sending these (the lowers) back. The inner sleeve is not round, more oblong from rolling the metal. When I put the bolt through it, there is a lot of slop. I am not satisfied, so I am returning them. These say the manufacturer is " AFT", like chinese aftermarket? I am going to try to find some german made bushings.
I dropped off my steering knuckles to have the lower ball joints pressed in this morning. The guy at the shop (VW Indie) says they are notoriously hard to get out and press the new ones in. Said it would be a minimum a 1hr shop time at $90.00. Are they really that difficult to replace?
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Luckypabst
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Lone Pine, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The local small town shop that won't even touch VW stuff had my lower ball joint out and back in within 10 minutes of dropping the spindle off. I know they don't have the VW tool and assume they just made something work with a common ball joint press set.
Minimum charge is 1/2 an hour ($40) but the owner has a sweet spot for my girlfriend - I sent her to pick it up and it was free.
Chris
_________________
'82 TD Westy
'81 NA Caddy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Luckypabst wrote: |
charge is 1/2 an hour ($40) but the owner has a sweet spot for my girlfriend - I sent her to pick it up and it was free.
Chris |
Hmmm. Maybe I should have sent my wife down in a mini skirt and her vintage Haight-Ashbury go go boots 
The dude charged me one hour labor. $90.00. (because I didn't send my wife)
I don't think I am taking the control arms there for bushing removal/replacment. Anybody have any tricks for the lowers? I got the uppers done. 212,000 miles on them and they were the originals!
I sent back the crappy lowers I got for $10 bucks each and bought german ones for $14 each at my local FLAPS. MUCH better workmanship.
Now I just need to get them in? Help?
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Franklinstower wrote: |
Anybody have any tricks for the lowers? I got the uppers done. 212,000 miles on them and they were the originals!
I sent back the crappy lowers I got for $10 bucks each and bought german ones for $14 each at my local FLAPS. MUCH better workmanship.
Now I just need to get them in? Help? |
Well, I am finally finished with a complete (almost) suspension rebuild.
Here is what I did:
new upper control arm bushings (FAQ-China);
new lower control arm bushings (OE German),
both upper (OE brand - China) and lower ball joints (OE German),
and new strut bar bushings (OE German).
What I found out was: all parts replaced were original, my westy has 212,000 on it, so it was definately needed.
The upper control arm bushings were not bad to replace. I used a propane torch to heat up the control arm and my vice to remove them. Definately do-able at home with out a press. The installation was much tougher. Again, I just used my vice and a Sch 40 PVC coupler to press them in. It was very hard, but go slow and they will go in. It took so much effort to get them back in, I did not see the necessity to tack weld them per bentley. I marked them to see if they ever move.
The upper Ball joints were a pice of cake, I heated them up with the torch and banged them out with a hammer. I put the nut back on backwards and even with the ball joint stud when I smacked em with the hammer.
the lower ball joints I took in and paid 90 bucks to have pressed out and the new ones pressed in.
The lower control arm bushings were a real pain to get out and the new ones in. I pressed them out using a ball joint 'C' press. Getting them in was very difficult. Since I did not have a press, I used a 9" long piece of 7/16" all thread to pull the new bushing into the control arm. Problem is when you try to pull or push it in, the rubber wants to expand and deform. I found a PVC coupler that worked perfectly for it had a taper in it to compress the bushing. I think the coupler was a threaded 2' nipple with a barbed end. I will post a picture of it. Anyway, worked great to compress the bushing just enough and keep it compressed while I pulled it through using the all thread. I used a lot of silicon lubricant. I fought this for a week until I found this PVC coupler. I was about to give up on it and take somewhere to have it pressed in.
The strut bar bushings were also original and the inner sleeve was badly corroded. I could not find a new sleeve to use with the new bushings, so I had to use the old ones. I might keep looking, I found a brass sleeve at Lowes, but it is about 5mm shorter than the original. It might compress the inner and outer bushings too much....Still thinking about this one.
Those were easy to install, needed to have the wheels back on the ground before you torque them though.
I will be going for a test drive tonight and off for to the alignment shop later this week.
Hope this helps anyone who is about to do the same. It was a long process but not technically difficult.
Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB
Last edited by Franklinstower on Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tikibus
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2006
Posts: 834
Location: Rochester, NY
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Actually it is not as hard as it seams.
last year I did the same thing. The whole front suspension.
What's the bear is the fear of, " I'm gonna screw this up bad..."
The Lower control arm bushing removal takes time doing low budget.
Drill it out.
Get a good table vise and lock it down tight. With a new sharp drill bit, start poking holes in the rubber. Drill the piss out of it.
With the rubber weakened, then with the same vise with some shims that can cover the metal tube, press it out. Will take some miss tries, but hot dang, it'll slip out!
Then when all is cleaned up, Silicone Spray the bushing ( Heavy coverage ) and again with some shims ( be creative!) push the new bushing in. She'll seat herself nice, over do it, back off and press it again.
Easy. Trust yourself. You can do it!
_________________
Happy Trails!
Mark
______________
Founding member of the Empire State VW Camping Club.
http://www.empirevwcamping.org/
1984 Westy - Tiki
1997 Honda Civic -The Green Hornet
1971 Volvo P-1800E- needs TLC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Franklinstower"]
| Franklinstower wrote: |
It took so much effort to get them back in, I did not see the necessity to tack weld them per bentley. I marked them to see if they ever move. |
Update: I marked the positions of the upper bushings and sure enough, they have moved. One looks like it has even worked it self out a mm. So i am taking them off and tack welding them. I guess the Tack Welding is necessary, at least in my case. Others have said that it is not necessary to weld.
I just had the alignment done last week! Damn it....maybe the guy at Omni Alignment in Kirkland WA will cut me break on the re-alignment, he has a '90 Westy!
Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5526
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Franklinstower wrote: |
Update: I marked the positions of the upper bushings and sure enough, they have moved. One looks like it has even worked it self out a mm. So i am taking them off and tack welding them. I guess the Tack Welding is necessary, at least in my case. Others have said that it is not necessary to weld. |
I think that you might be refering to me as I too marked mine and left them un-tacked to see if in fact they needed to be tacked in place.
My motivation for not tacking was to see if the lack of heat introduced into the bushing might make it last a tad bit longer before squeaking. Mine never moved, but it looks like mine might be the exception, not the rule.
Franklinstower, if you mark the through bolt/shaft in the upper control arm before disassembly and replace it in exactly the same position, you shouldn't need a new alignment as nothing will change in the assembly.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steve vw
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Homer Alaska
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: Lower control are bushings |
|
|
Paul
I'm having the same problem, exactly! My two new bushings just arrived from Bus Depot and my control arms are the same as yours. The bushings don't seem to fit. Bus Depot says this bushing is the only one they have or can find. The original bushings on my 1985 Vanagon GL have the letter B at the end of the part number.
Not sure what to do!!
Steve VW |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
droogvan
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2005
Posts: 258
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I'm unfortunately in the same boat as you guys with the lower control arm bushings. I ordered a set from Van Cafe and they appear to be quite a bit shorter than the stock bushings. I'm a little nervous to pop the old ones out because I'm sure I'll destroy them in the process. Van Cafe seems to be the only ones who sell the lowers anymore and they swear they are the correct bushings. I'm kind of biting my nails on this because if I pull the old and the new don't fit then what? I think I need someone to hold me and tell me every things going to be alright. 
_________________
89 Westy zetec
Some ol bullshit |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iceracer
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I bought all mine front and back from Vancafe and they were correct. The bushings look different when not installed, however the fronts are different from the backs, at least on the syncros. Don't fret it, push the old out and soap up the new and push em in. Not a bad job at all. I did all of mine using a bench vise. Was a bit tricky but I pulled it off on all the fronts and the rears.
_________________
86 Syncro Wolfsburg edition
63 Beetle (The Iceracer) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kshbaja
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So....was all the work/$$$ worth it?
I have an older volvo that turned into a new car (almost) after replacing all the bushings. I have been considering this same job on my Westy and am wondering if it is worth it?
_________________
1986 Westfalia |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iceracer
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I won't know for another year as I am restoring the entire syncro but mine were shot with 171000 miles. They were out of center and 5 out of the 6 bolts for the bushings were seized in the bushings. I had to sawzall them off and fight to get them out. PITA!!! Went through a ton of sawzall blades.
_________________
86 Syncro Wolfsburg edition
63 Beetle (The Iceracer) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spaeth
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005
Posts: 355
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have not used these guys but I have heard some others say some good things about them. The link is: www.burleymotorsportsdirect.com check in the catalog under syncro parts. They have lower front bushings and eurethane rear bushings. I really like the upper ball joint spacers. I think I am going to get a set of those since I am lifted a good bit.
hope this helps,
Craig |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10495
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Some pics of how I got my lower control arm bushings out.
Came out easy. Spray lube on end of bushing and thread/turning nut of rod. Use stronger washer on small end. Mine dished but worked fine. Custom fetid practice welds on exhaust pipe piece are optional.   FWIW, strut bar washer fit nicely over exhaust pipe piece. Pic 2: socket not centered on metal sleeve. IMO, if possible, it should be.
Installation questions.
P40.6 Bentley, VW 411 tool: is it pushing on metal sleeve of bushing or is it pushing on the rubber itself?
I'm concerned that pushing on metal sleeve to install, (note pic 2) might partially separate sleeve from rubber possibly damaging the new part.
I had read that RTV work well for lube. Anyone know if "RTV" refers to RTV silcone sealant?
Thanks!
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RTV = Room Temp Vulcanising.
Yup, silicone.
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is death to doctrine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10495
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tencentlife wrote: |
RTV = Room Temp Vulcanising.
Yup, silicone. |
I had no idea what that meant.
Thanks!
I should add that there didn't *seem* to be any damage to the old part when removed by pushing on the metal sleeve. Still. I understand that installation might provide more resistance, hence my concern about pushing them in via the metal sleeve portion.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
