Aux battery relay wiring?

Timwhy · Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: Aux battery relay wiring?

Ok, maybe it's not me and maybe it's the relay instead! Trying to figure out why my aux battery is not charging and it was the "86" position that was not connected to the blue wire on the original relay. I spliced into that blue wire and it is still not charging? The questions I have is could the original relay be shorted out? Maybe the new relay is faulty? Could it be the original blue wire? What do I look for and how do I test things? Should I just go purchase two new relay and start over. I have never had the Fridge on 12v so I am not sure if the original relay ever worked. Can anyone give me some suggestions as to what to do? Thanks, Tim
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'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
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85_Westy · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:20 am Post subject:

Did you ever get your fridge relay problem sorted out?

I was using my fridge relay (rewired) to charge my aux battery (about 4 years worth) and the relay failed. I'm now putting in a Sure Power 1315 and a spare fridge relay which I will rewire back the way it was. If you need info about where the wires go for either setup just let me know.

Mike
Houlton, Maine

PDXWesty · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:07 am Post subject:

So I had the stock relay modified to charge the battery from directions I got from GoWesty. Here is what it looks like if it is stock. The first is the wire color and the second is the terminal number on the relay.

Wire - Terminal (stock)

1. Red/Blk - #85 (ground through starter solenoid)
2. Blue - #86 (ignition trigger)
3. Red from dash - #87 (outside) (Constant power)
4. Small red - #87 (middle) (from aux. fuse box)
5. Large red - #30 (from aux. fuse box)

Here’s what it should look like after you switch it to use an auxiliary battery with the directions I got:

Wire - Terminal (modified)

1. Red/Blk - #85 (ground through starter solenoid)
2. Blue - #86 (ignition trigger)
3. Red from dash - #30 (Constant power)
4. Small red - #87 (middle) (from aux. fuse box)
5. Large red - to positive on new aux. battery. (from aux. fuse box)
6. New Large red - #87 (from new aux. battery positive to relay)

So, when the ignition is on, power will go to the auxiliary battery for charging. When the ignition is off, the two circuits for the camping equipment will be powered off the auxiliary battery and isolated from the main battery. The camping light will need to be rewired to the aux. battery if you want along with any other loads. You also need to ground the new battery somewhere. Mine was grounded to the screw in the aux battery box that held the wire clip in.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

Timwhy · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:23 am Post subject:

So PDXwesty you are only using one relay, right? With your setup and the old large red going to the + terminal of the aux battery and a new large red going to "87" are you not always suppling power to the fridge regardless of the van running? I have two relays and the are hooked up to one another.Old relayy left untouched, new relay connected to the 86 and 85 positions respectively to the old relay. 87 coming from main battery, and 30 going to aux battery+ terminal.
If I want to run the Battery panel LED's to show the status of the Aux battery shouln't I run a new lead from my aux fuse box to the old relays' top 87 position and disconnect the 12v constant power from the dash(main battery power)? Does this sound correct?
The relays that I am using are both 5 point 30amp relays.
Thanks....Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:50 am Post subject:

Yes, that is a problem with a 1 relay solution, that relay can't do the fridge 12 volt job at the same time it does the aux battery job. You should use a second relay that is triggered by the output of the first relay as this does not place any additional load on the blue wire circuit of the alternator. Another issue is that the power wire from the dash can't provide full power for both jobs either. It can still work if your charging requirements are minimal but better to run a new charging wire from the main battery or from the alternator. Otherwise the charging voltage at the relay will be lower than it could be and lower still when the fridge is running on 12 volts. To get full charging voltage to the aux battery it needs a more direct connection to alternator power and not one that goes to the dash first. Most people run a heavy wire between the front battery boxes to get a more direct charging path to the aux battery. The size of that wire needs to match the battery relay or other separator device used and if you use a larger gauge wire for this than VW did in the factory aux battery setups you will also need a heavier relay. I use a 100 amp relay and 8 gauge wire for most of these.

Mark

Timwhy · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject:

Cleaned up my wiring tonight. Spliced into the 85 position for both relays. What a difference it made in terms of charging my aux battery. Got the diagram from Dogpilots' files on aux battery relays and it works great!!

I put my cig voltmeter in while the van was running and almost 13volts, success!! The only other thing is to have my camper LED panel show what my Aux Battery level is at.

Stiil not sure if I should just run a lead from my aux fuse box to the relay where the 12v constant power is plugged in. What are other people doing do show this level for the Aux Battery? I want to hook up a LED voltmeter installed on the stove faceplate at some point, but just trying to get these led's working is my first goal.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

PDXWesty · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject:

In the wiring directions I posted, which were the same as what GoWesty does, the refer is connected directly to the aux. battery. When the van is running, the relay closes and provides power to the aux. battery and thus the refer. When the ignition is off, the relay opens and isolates the battery. Two relays aren't needed, the fridge can run on 12v while the van is running, the aux. can charge, and the batteries isolate when stopped. If you draw it out, you'll see how it works.

Timwhy, the #30 terminal should have the power from the main fuse panel (alternator) connected to it. The new aux + terminal goes to #87.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto

Timwhy · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:23 am Post subject:

PDXWesty, hey if it works for you that's great!

There is not switch between the battery and the fridge in your setup, and I think you'll find that your switch is only isolating your battery while the van is running because the switch is between the two batteries. I'd keep a close eye on your aux battery unless this is a daily driver.

Were you able to isolate your aux battery level using the LED panel on the stove or is it showing the main battery level?
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

PDXWesty · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:30 am Post subject:

I think you've misunderstood the wiring. With that wiring, the batteries are combined while driving and isolated when you are not driving. Both batteries will recieve a charge while driving because the relay closes. When you are not driving, the relay opens and the camping gear draws power from the auxilliary battery only. The main battery is then isolated so it doesn't draw down. Why do you need a switch for the fridge? What purpose does it serve? The led panel in this case measures the aux. battery voltage.

I'll get a diagram posted if that helps.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto

ccisco · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: wiring

I could use the diagram; I'm about to hook up an aux in my 84 westy. It has the factory installed stuff.... Very Happy

Timwhy · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:37 am Post subject:

I would think that a switch between the battery and fridge would be a good thing if you can only isolate it when the van is running.

Diagram would be helpful!

Getting back to your led panel, if you did nothing to the original 12v power from the dash? Would that not be showing your main battery's power level and not the aux battery? The way I have mine hooked up with two relays, it still shows the level for the main battery.
Thanks for the replies!! Tim

whafalia · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject:

I believe if your led is reading the main battery you are also running your sink pump off the main battery. You can follow the 2 wires from the little fuse panel by the door to the relay and find out which one to pull to turn off the panel. You can then hook this one to the aux circuit if this is what you desire. I think it was the wire to the middle of the relay for on my 84.

Timwhy · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject:

Tried something different tonight!

I want the led panel to be powered by my aux battery and the two relay setup I have it is not. Thought that if I disconnected the constant 12v power the light would go out but they didn't.
Leaving that 12v disconnected, I disconnected my main battery then the lights went out. My panel wire is connected to my new relay in the middle 87 post, but it has a direct feed from my main battery to charge my aux.
I thought that if I put the panel wire back on my original relay in the middle 87 post and ran a hot lead from my aux fuse box to the relay it would show the battery level of my aux battery. What I got was a whole lot of nothing. I think that my next attempt will be a hot lead from my aux + terminal to the original relay in the top 87 post and see if that works while the panel wire is connected to the origianl relay middle 87 post.
Can some one using a two relay setup check their install, to see if their panel is showing the aux or the main battery level. Simply test throw the switch and disconnect one of the batteries.
Many Thanks.....Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject:

You can have the panel display either battery. It all depends on how you wire up the relays. If you post a photo or 2 of your current relays I can probably tell you which wires to move where.

Mark

Timwhy · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject:

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject:

Simple enough to do what you wanted then. On the aux battery relay reverse the existing 2 wires on 30 and 87, so the main battery is on 30 and the aux battery is on one of the 87 pins. Then move the smaller red wire from fridge relay 87 to the other battery relay pin 87.

I am going on your say so that both relays are of the SAME 5 pin type. There are identical looking 5 pin relays with a very important difference. Instead of 2 pin 87s they have an 87 and 87a. If you used one of this type for the battery relay then my steps above won't work. t

Mark

Timwhy · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject:

Off hand I don't recall if they said 87a and 87 or not but they are both the same relay I bought at a local napa. Do you mean that both have to be the same or just the aux battery needs to be two 87's and not 87 & 87a?

Why would it make a difference? This is a great education process!!
Many thanks........Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject:

It sound like yours are fine. The common fridge type has 2 pins 87 that are tied together so it doesn't matter which is which, they both connect to 30 when the relay is activated. The type with 87 and 87a are never connected together since the relay they are in connects 30-87a when off and switches it to 30-87 when activated.

Mark

PDXWesty · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject:

I think that's just what I posted above. Wink

I don't know why you want to use two relays when one is all you need to accomplish what you're describing.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto

crazyvwvanman · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject:

Because just the 1 relay can't do the aux battery charging job and the fridge 12 volts only while engine is running job at the same time. You need 2 relays to do the 2 jobs.

Mark


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