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Motor Problem..please help diagnose
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shorepig
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Motor Problem..please help diagnose Reply with quote

I was driving up a steady steep incline at about 45 mph, when I heard a loud clattering sound, then noticed a drop in power. I pulled over, the van was idling rough. I shut it down did a compression check, and found that one cylinder is not firing. My compression test results were 150 150 150 70. When I disconnect and reconnect the 70 psi cylinder wire the motor does not change. The motor is running on three cylinders and has very low power. There is definitely a strong spark going to the cylinder in question. Before this happened, the van was making a bit of a clattering sound that would only occur above 3000 rpms.

So currently, the van is making a tapping sound, has a major loss of power, has no oil leaks.

Any insight would be great!
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morymob
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit of 'insight' as to what ? u are driving,GoldWing,truck, car,etc would help.
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WestyBob
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: Motor Problem..please help diagnose Reply with quote

shorepig wrote:
I was driving up a steady steep incline at about 45 mph, when I heard a loud clattering sound, then noticed a drop in power. I pulled over, the van was idling rough. Before this happened, the van was making a bit of a clattering sound that would only occur above 3000 rpms. So currently, the van is making a tapping sound, has a major loss of power


I'll make a wild guess and say dropped/broken valve(s) ? Remove the valve cover and see if anything looks weird or falls out. Or perhaps a loose rod about to throw ? A simpler thing - is the plug ok (presuming the wores are as you've said) ? If yes, it needs to go to the car doctor right away.
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mcsyncro
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if it dropped a valve, it would have 0 compression. I'd say either a seat came
loose in the head, or it has a broken valve spring.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say anything until the OP says what engine it is. And I might not say anything even then!
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Hmmm, provincial much?:
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mcsyncro
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
I wouldn't say anything until the OP says what engine it is. And I might not say anything even then!


I say it doesn't matter what kind of engine it is, their all pretty much
the came inside, unless he's got a DKW 2 stroke in it...........
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you say so.
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Hmmm, provincial much?:
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"I wouldn't go much on whats written on the samba, they love a "theory" and rarely ask any Europeans what is actually correct."
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shorepig
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I left out the details...

The engine is a GW 2.3 inside an 85 auto westy. The motor has about 10 000 miles on it.

The plug in the cylinder in question was very wet, and oily when I pulled it out.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right off the top of my head , unless it is a DKW 2 stroke, you've gone into the nuclear meltdown phase.

Wet plugs, No Compresh, and no fire mean deep trouble.

Tear the top end down and let us know what fried--

It's either a valve, the valve seat seat, or a piston.
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ftp2leta
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
I wouldn't say anything until the OP says what engine it is. And I might not say anything even then!


Smile

What about now, double Smile


Does GW engine have warranty? Because you have a major problem.

Ben
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's times like this having a Boroscope would sure come in handy.

You sure could have answered all of your questions in about 5 minutes.

The one I have sure has paid for itself many times.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's true that it raises 70psi in that hole, then you can be 98% sure it doesn't have a cracked or holed piston, bent or broken valve, loose valve seat (something very rarely seen on wbx's, one of many reasons it matters which engine we're discussing), or broken rings, agents of doom and gloom notwithstanding. One might want to pop off the valve cover on the suspect side as was suggested, what, yesterday morning? and do a run-through on the valvetrain; no special tools needed but a screwdriver, flashlight, 13mm box and presence of mind to gather the facts that'll fill in the picture. While you do this just pull your hat down and ignore the vultures circling overhead.
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Hmmm, provincial much?:
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep-it could very well be just a stuck or tight valve.

It's times like this some owner partcipation, would be real nice.

I'd for sure at least pop the valve cover & take a look what's going on in the valve train prior to getting nervous.

If one valve is stuck open, or not closing all the way --this is more than likely your problem.

If that ain't it--well, you'll need to either yank the top end apart for a discovery trip, or get ahold of a Boroscope to see what's going on.
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gbrandt
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most people don't own boroscopes.

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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rent one, borrow one.

That's pretty simple.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
Yep-it could very well be just a stuck or tight valve.

It's times like this some owner partcipation, would be real nice.

I'd for sure at least pop the valve cover & take a look what's going on in the valve train prior to getting nervous.

If one valve is stuck open, or not closing all the way --this is more than likely your problem.



There ya go, TK. Those things, plus bent or broken pushrod, broken valve-spring (the AMC heads have been known to have this happen once or twice) and the one my money's on, total collapse of a lifter. The clacking prior to the disaster-like sound seems like a fairly strong cue for that one.

Anyway, I'm done until we see some more feedback. I can only wank it for so long before my arm gets tired.
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Hmmm, provincial much?:
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shorepig
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Wednesday I will have it into the shop for a peek. I sure hope it's nothing BIG. This is motor #2 from GW. Even with their warranty, the first failed motor (#3 piston had a melt down) cost us $2000 in repairs. We've only put about 10 000 miles on this motor, so this really bites. You guys will have to keep "wank'n it" for a couple of days until we find out what lurks beneath that valve cover.

I'm going with Tencents theory....collapsed lifter. The motor was making a clattering sound at high rpms prior to the breakdown. This clattering sounded exactly like a reocurring problem I had previously with a loose torque converter bolt rattling around. Well..now I know its not a loose torque convertor bolt Sad Do rebuilt motors need to have the valves or lifters re-tightened after a certain period?
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ccisco
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: engine noise Reply with quote

Shocked [Do rebuilt motors need to have the valves or lifters re-tightened after a certain period?]
Normally, hydo lifters should self-adjust after that initial clacking and stuff. However, many lifters have those little paperclip like retainers, rather than the c-clip kind, and those can pop out....
Good Luck
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RCB
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorepig, have you called, faxed, E-mailed ,or sent smoke signals to GW about this problem ?
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rblake3
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No report on valvetrain inspection? Takes 10 minutes to pop off the valve covers and have a look see. Take the pushrod bar off and look at the pushrods. You may even be able to get a flashlight and mirror to look through the pushrod tube to the lifter to see if the clip is floating around? Re-adjust the valves, change the oil.
Put oil into cylinder bore when doing compression test to see if it comes up. But sounds more like lifter/valve as described by others above.

What would really be benificial for YOU however is to spend the small amount of money comparatively on a proper oil pressure, oil temp gauge set up for your motor. At least you will know before hand just before your new 3500 dollar WBX will grenade itself and possibly prevent further damage. Oil pressure is vitally important to monitor on these crappy, I mean well engineered VW motors.
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