Horn

[KillerTux]

Horn died a few days ago, it would just beep once and wouldn't beep again for a few days. Got a new 6V Hella horn and I plugged it up and it will not sound all the way. It sounds like someone is scratching a turned on microphone. I tested the new horn off the car and it does sound all the way. I have read most of the topics on horns and my rubber on the column is still there and I buffed the terminals down and replaced the terminal connectors. I can't figure this one out
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1964 Beetle Convertible

[shano63]

maybe this will help?? http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_12_00/wired_12_00.htm
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63 T1 Ragtop Gulf Blue
20 Toyota Corolla 6spd
22 Wrangler 6spd
78 F250 4x4 4spd

Chris

Take it as it comes-- Morrison

[rokemester]

I'm in the same boat with my 6v horn. I tested the horn, bypassing the crazy horn grounding circuit and it sounded fine so I know the horn is getting sufficient voltage and works. I cleaned contacts, buffed the horn ring contacts and all I can get is a weak start to a honk. There is something mysterious going on between the brown wire at the top of the steering column and the bottom where a black wire emerges and fastens to a terminal.

[glutamodo]

On my 62, my horn didn't work when it was 6V. I changed it to 12V, including a new horn, and that did work for several years, but then it quit again. I'd get a bit of a signal through there but not enough to power the horn. I eventually just went and wired up a horn relay - the signal I do get is enough to power that.

I suspect that on mine, the weak point is where the tab attaches to the end of the steering column, it stops making a good connection:

[rokemester]

Can you describe how you wired your horn relay? Actually the connector you show on your bug is not too bad in mine. I suspect the other connector coming out the bottom of the steering tunnel.

[bsflyboy]

Spray the connectors with wd40 and then reconnect them several times. Be sure and hit the grounding lead that is up higher on the steering column where it comes out under the car. That fixed mine.
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Ever notice how these things look like they are powered by airplane engines? Or is it the other way around!

66' Beetle running 1500 SP

[glutamodo]

The steering tunnel? You mean the hollow steering column tube? That picture above IS that. I uh,forgot to say tube above...!

As for the relay, it's just a power supply relay, same type as is in the "hot start" kits, with a mounting tab. I caulked the base of it to help weatherproof it, zip tied it up to the loom going to the front turn singal. Then ran wires down from it to the horn. How I connected it though, I'm trying to remember....

[rokemester]

Yes. Sorry to use the incorrect terminology. Steering tube is what I meant. It would be nice to know exactly what is going on in that steering tube? Where does the black wire come from that emerges at the end of the steering tube? As you can tell from my questions I'm electrically challenged. Even though I see the diagram of the horn circuit. It doesn't make much sense to me. I just know that something funky is happening in the grounding circuit between the brown wire attached to the horn ring and the other wire at the horn.

In fact maybe that is my real question. I know where the power wire to the horn comes from. I can easily trace that back to the fuse box. But I'm having trouble physically tracing the 2nd horn wire back to anything. Where does it go?

[fluxcap]

[rokemester]

I've cleaned up the contact at the top of the steering tube where your finger is pointing. Where does that brown wire go? Wait I think I know. The brown wire where your finger is pointing is the 2nd wire going to the horn, right? I'm beginning to see the circuit now. It just took me a while. If I'm wrong just tell me. Seeing the circuit on paper is different than seeing it in 3D on the car.

Perhaps I need to focus my attention on the ground connection near the steering coupler. I think I'm going to need generous doses of PB blaster to get that ground bolt loose. What has confused me is the wire color of the wire at the steering coupler is black and the color of the wire in the horn section is brown. Maybe someone has jiggered with this ground circuit before.

Thanks for your patience.

[glutamodo]

Yes, that is the the wire going to the horn. And I it's how well it's making contact with the tube itself, not how well the wire end fits onto the tab that I'm thinking might be an issue.

[rokemester]

...and now back to the horn circuit. Now that Murray is running I can get back to the horn. VW multi-tasking. I was able to free up the ground wire at the steering coupling and cleaned it all up nice and shiny. Unfortunately no difference in the horn sound. Just a baby blip.

I checked the brown wire at the top of the steering tube and there was continuity between that and the 2nd wire going to the horn. To be expected.

I checked for continuity from the ground point to the brown wire at the steering wheel button and got continuity there.

It's got to be something to do with that brown wire connection on the steering wheel sleeve at the top. Unfortunately that connector isn't screwed in. It's riveted in or something. Why wouldn't they make connection easier to maintain?!

[rokemester]

Looking for suggestions on an alternate wiring scheme if I can't get the conventional installation to work...

[glutamodo]

Oh, I drew up a diagram of the horn relay but never posted it! If you are like me, and the horn contacts all work unloaded , but if you hook up the horn, it can't handle the higher current the horn draws, then this should work. It has for years for me. Well, on 12V it's easy enough, just get one of these kind of relays:

(They did make 6V versions but they are hard to find!)

Then you wire it up like this:

I caulked the bottom of mine to help make sure it was sealed, then used that mounting tab to zip-tie it to the wiring going to the headlight bucket.

I was looking at mine and trying to figure out why it looked like the wires were going to the wrong terminals on the relay. So I unwrapped the electrical tape I had on all the wires - looking more closely I guess I had some oddball relay with the terminals in alternate locations. It's been years since I set this up, and now that I've looked at it, I think I'm going to redo those splices, clean everything up, do some heat shrink. But here's a photo of it all "bare"

-Andy

[rokemester]

That looks like a hot set up to me Andy! Thanks for taking the time to open your work up and dig up your diagram. Looks like I need to start searching for a relay. So Bosch actually made a horn relay. What cars used this? How does it work. Is their a small capacitor that bumps up the voltage a bit?

[glutamodo]

Actually, horn relays started back in the 50s - Karmann Ghia have dual horns and to handle the extra current, use a relay. (It didn't look like the one pictured above though) By the 1980s horn relays were used on about all VW models. All I did was to just take a general power supply relay and use it as a horn relay.

[rokemester]

I found a 6v relay and it's winging it's way to me as we speak. I'll update the forum if I'm able to get it to work. I'm going to need a way to determine which terminals I use as I don't think it will come with a schematic.

[glutamodo]

Most relays have terminal numbers on them, so it shouldn't be too hard to determine. Now, if you got one of those "Ford Starter Solenoid" relay things, those can require a fair amount of pull-in current and might not be of much help in this application.

[rokemester]

I was picking up a few miscellaneous parts at a local foreign parts store, Euclid Foreign here in Cleveland, and thought to ask if they might have any 6v relays. He didn't have 6v dome lights, but he happened to have the exact same Bosch relay you have picture in this string. Although I had another unknown type 6v relay on its way from a classified I thought I better be safe and pick this one up. I'm glad I did (unfortunately the 6v relay I purchased in the classified was a no go). I hooked the Bosch relay up last night following your picture and schematic and LO and BEHOLD my car has a voice. VERY COOL. We have now confirmed your solution for a 6v car! THANKS!

I'll follow up with some pictures to document my installation. I'm still a little foggy on exactly why this circuit works, but I'm glad it does. I did make one minor modification. I changed the ground point from the horn base to a fender bolt. Isn't the horn bracket insulated from the body with a rubber gasket?

[glutamodo]