'steering clear of any air-cooled Vanagon'

[jnsjr58]

I'm looking at a very nice 83' AC westy and i was refered to this article by go westy:
[b]
1980-1983: The Vanagon was introduced in 1980 with the same 2000cc EFI engine that was used in the last of the Buses. These air-cooled Vanagons, although functionally a great improvement over their Bus predecessors, are the worst of the Vanagons, and maybe even the least desirable of any VW van ever made. The 2000cc air-cooled engine was simply not up to the task of pushing around an even bigger, heavier box. Typical engine life is about 90,000 miles. Additionally, the first stab at the 4-speed shifter system was a complete failure and was totally re-designed with the introduction of the gasoline water-cooled model in late 1983. A good specimen of an air-cooled Vanagon pop-top will run between $2500 and $5000, but we recommend steering clear of any air-cooled Vanagon.[/b]

Any thoughts or coments?

[mightyart]

They are the experts, after all.

[KayAych]

Least desirable VW van is still extremely desirable if it fits your needs and budget. I've only ever had air cooled. Right now driving an 81 Westy, rebuilt stock engine with 2500 miles, couldn't be happier. Yes, you downshift to third going up steep hills - just like you would if you were driving a school bus or a Greyhound, or a big rig. And you end up getting to your destination 4 minutes later than you would have otherwise. The simplicity of maintenance can't be beat on these motors.

[agreendaya]

I like my watercooled one a whole lot, but I did like my aircooled '74, 'twas a nice little engine (and not all that much slower up the hills, maybe 5 or 10 mph). If I were to go aircooled, I'd probably go with a Bay, just since if I'm going to have that motor, I'd rather have the style of the older (and I believe lighter) bus.
_________________
'74 Bug - Gone
'69 Westy - Gone
'74 Westy - Gone
'78 Transporter - Gone
'69 Baja - Gone
'91 Vanagon Carat - Gone
‘71 Bus - Gone

Current: ‘74 Westy 2.0L, hydraulic valves, dual EMPI 34s

[dixoncj]

I went through three engines in my 82 in rapid succession. And I mean rapid. If I were going Aircooled, I think the only way I'd consider it would be one of these Jake Raby motors I've been reading about.

[mightyart]

Yep VW got air cooleds right for 40 some odd years, and the last three they screwed up on.
Aircooled Vanagon bodys are crap...wait it's the same body as the 1.9 has.
It's the engine that sucks...but it's the same engine that works so well in the bay.
It's the extra weight then, yea put another 400 pounds in a bay and you know that it would barely move.
It's got to be the arodynamics then... because of course the vanagon wasn't designed to be more arodynamic then the bay was it?

[mightyart]

[simd0ggie]

I loved my A/C 81 Westy. Yeah it was a little sluggish compared to my weezing 200K mile 2.1L WBX, but it was super fun to drive and carry on in. Keep your exhaust in tip top shape and don't go over 4000 rpms and you'll be fine.
_________________
-Matt
'85 Westfalia w/EJ25, '14 Tiguan R-Line 4 Motion

"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.”

[agreendaya]

It's only 400 pounds? I had thought it was a lot more than that. Interesting. I always like learning new things here. I had always thought that the vanagon was much heavier than the bay, and that the aircooled Vanagons performed much worse than the Bay window. Silly, incorrect rumor?
_________________
'74 Bug - Gone
'69 Westy - Gone
'74 Westy - Gone
'78 Transporter - Gone
'69 Baja - Gone
'91 Vanagon Carat - Gone
‘71 Bus - Gone

Current: ‘74 Westy 2.0L, hydraulic valves, dual EMPI 34s

[dixoncj]

Why quit bringing it up? I'm meticulous with my vans. Took meticulous care of my 82. It was the rebuilds that sucked. And if you're john q public aircooled vanagon driver, there's every chance you're going to be looking at a rebuild in your future. My tale is cautionary. If you don't have time to put into doing your own rebuilds - or want to put your dosh into a quality builder like Raby, then consider steering clear of an aircooled.

[mightyart]

[?Waldo?]

I agree with the GoWesty article. Not only was the weight increased (I thought it was closer to 800 lbs heavier than a similar bay) but the gearing was made taller as well, increasing the strain on the less than ideal cooling system. Additionally, I'd go so far as to say that ALL of the stock vanagon motors sucked, especially from today's standards but most of all the air-cooled. But to add insult to injury, the lack of water cooling system makes conversion to an adequate engine a whole lot more work/expense. The only reason I'd ever look twice at an air-cooled would be for parts.

Andrew

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

[dixoncj]

Did I say it was the Vanagon's fault? No it was fricking shitty rebuilds dude. I went through three motors in the space of a year. They came from a builder in Santa Ana, CA. I can't remember the name. But it was GD nightmare as I had my van on the east coast. The only way I got any restitution was because I lived in San Clemente (Orange County also) and threatened to take the guys to court while my van languished in Norwalk, CT for half a year. When they finally did supply me with a good engine, it lasted around 50K before seizing on the guy who bought the van from me. I had oil pressure, cyl head and oil temp gauges on the motors. All scored pistons. That's why I'm saying - go w/a good, solid rebuilder if you're going aircooled, or dont go there.

[mightyart]

Sorry about your luck, but you can get shitty rebuilt 1.9's and 2.1's

If you need a rebuilt engine go with a solid rebuilder.

[jnsjr58]

Thanks for all the replys.
I thought my westy had finally found me........but I guess not?
After reading all the replys and the owner told me about a lifter sticking?(but as long as I started it everyday it would be fine) this was perfectly normal? I think I'll have to pass.....look at the post though...... looks nice doesn't it ?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=785595

I'm still having a hard time passing on this....

[mightyart]

Westy in that shape for $4000.00, sounds kinda high to me.
I just read the air cooled thing from Go Westy to my wife and she got a big laugh.
What kind of Westy are you wanting to get?
How much are you willing to spend?

[70coupyel]

[reluctantartist]

Aircooled's are great if that is what you are into. I find mine to be a joy compared to the Volvo S60 T5 or the 1998 New Beetle. They do not seem to be much less under performing than the 1.9's and they do not have coolant problems. But like any vehicle you need to make sure everything is working correctly. All too often when I see people complaining about air-cooled engines the person had an engine that was not operating under proper conditions ie: cooling tin was missing, the thermostat was inoperative, or the cooling flaps were removed, etc.... These are simple engines, but they are different enough that they are often misunderstood by the water cooled crowd. Most of the 80's era engines are underpowered by todays standards for vans. The type 4 engine had over 100 ft/lbs of torque which seemed normal for the time; the Toyota Y engine vans only came with 103 ft/lbs torque. I can say it is far easier to maintain my Vanagon. When the time comes for a rebuild, I will probably go with a Camper Special have something that is still simple more reliable, more torque, and even better than the WBX. Oh and I got over 160,000 on my engine before it needed major work (and that was do to a fluke...the cooling fan bolts broke; I did not know before that that was even a possibility). Of course the guys at Go Westy are the all knowing final word on Vanagons so I guess I better figure out why my engine did not meet their 90k expectation. People do get over 100k on the Type 4 engine including rebuilds.

If the Westy is in good shape and all of the engine components work correctly (means you will have to take time to check them all which you will do for any old engine) go for it. I wouldn't trade mine for a WBX unless it was in mint condition and less then 100 original miles.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[?Waldo?]

I'd call dropped valve seats a very serious cooling system issue.