| Author |
Message |
Alwesty
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 2
Location: ontario Canada
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: Starter wiring help (auto trans) |
 |
|
I have an 87 westy (automatic) The wiring loom from the ign. has a red/blk wire that is attached to the starter. In that same loom is a red/White wire(smaller gauge) that is just hanging down as if it broke off something. I cant' seem to find any red/white wire that goes to the starter in the bentley manual. Does anyone know what it is for and where it goes?
thanx
Al |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15410
Location: Syracuse, NY
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Trigger wire for the Fuel injection pump?
tells the FI ECU that you are 'cranking' the starter and to begin injecting fuel. till the RPMs pick up and the ECU takes over.
Dan in NY
_________________
| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BlueNorthWesty
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2014
Posts: 348
Location: Calgary
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am having the same issue, except for me the red/white wire was connected to the same spade connector as the 8 gauge red/black wire. The Bentley does not show a red/white wire going to the starter. In this photo the red wire is missing the connector.
I'm replacing the stock starter with a Bosch hi-torque and it does not have room for both wires. Also the fat battery connector does not fit, it's too tall to be able to put a nut on the stud at the starter.
Has anyone had this issue?
I need to know what to do with the red/white wire because it will affect how I wire the VW to the Subaru engine.
_________________
1984 Medium Blue Vanagon Westfalia 2WD w/ rebuilt Auto, Peloquin differential, 3.27 R&P gears, 2002 Subaru 2.5L engine, Girling G60 front brake upgrade, PS, power mirrors
Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=610481&highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1775
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
go to thread: Starter wiring - need help identifying wires
hope this helps
88 Wolfsburg with 02 Subaru 2.5L |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1775
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1775
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
From 72-79 bus engine starter removal:
'The alternator and battery cables are the largest wires. Pull the two spaded connectors from the terminal 50. One red/black wire goes to the ignition switch and the other red/white wire goes to the double relay to power the pump for fuel injected engines.'
Here he has a black wire to a remote starter instead of the RB wire
I think you can ignore this WR wire and put a ring connector on the other big red one that doesn't fit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BlueNorthWesty
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2014
Posts: 348
Location: Calgary
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
With help from the forum and RMW I made the wiring changes to connect to the Bosch starter. There are two mods you need to do to make it work. First, reduce the size of the stock VW connector that goes to the junction box in the engine compartment.
Mine had to be cut down to fit on the positive post. I took most of the material off on the drill press and finished with a file.
The second mod is to connect the black/red and red/white wires together for the single spade lug connection. I used a two into one male to female connector so I didn't have to cut the original wires.
_________________
1984 Medium Blue Vanagon Westfalia 2WD w/ rebuilt Auto, Peloquin differential, 3.27 R&P gears, 2002 Subaru 2.5L engine, Girling G60 front brake upgrade, PS, power mirrors
Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=610481&highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1775
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So where does the red/white wire go? I see it now on the GoWesty high torque starter pic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BlueNorthWesty
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2014
Posts: 348
Location: Calgary
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wesitarz wrote: |
| So where does the red/white wire go? I see it now on the GoWesty high torque starter pic. |
It connects to the red/black wire. They both go to the same place (the male spade connector on the starter) so you can either find a connector that does it like I did, or splice them together into a single female spade lug.
_________________
1984 Medium Blue Vanagon Westfalia 2WD w/ rebuilt Auto, Peloquin differential, 3.27 R&P gears, 2002 Subaru 2.5L engine, Girling G60 front brake upgrade, PS, power mirrors
Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=610481&highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1775
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just back to Victoria from my winter 5 months in Thailand. I do see that red/white from the alt and connect to the red/black in Bentley for the 83-84 Digijet wiring. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
furrylittleotter
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: West Seattle
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Some pretty crafty upgrades going on here!
I too wondered where that stupid wire went once upon a time.
Neil2 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
walkingupstream
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2015
Posts: 21
Location: Arlington, Va
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 9:02 am Post subject: red/white |
|
|
How about if you trace the red/white back? Where does that go and why?
| BlueNorthWesty wrote: |
| wesitarz wrote: |
| So where does the red/white wire go? I see it now on the GoWesty high torque starter pic. |
It connects to the red/black wire. They both go to the same place (the male spade connector on the starter) so you can either find a connector that does it like I did, or splice them together into a single female spade lug. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52690
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Starter wiring help |
|
|
| Not sure where it goes or if it's necessary with a Subaru conversion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8599
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2025 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Starter wiring help |
|
|
Bringing this back up, since I had the same question while replacing the starter due to a completely random no-start issue that has occurred over the last 10 months or so (everything but the starter had been ruled out). Since this particular thread doesn't have the answer (thank you, Mark!), posting it for future automatic owners/searchers:
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The extra mystery wire is required in automatics that have certain options.
Certain options use the starter motor solenoid as part of their control logic. In manual tranny vans these options can just connect to the starter terminal 50 wiring in the dash. There is a problem with doing that in automatics because the starter 50 connection goes through the safety interlock switch in the auto shift lever assembly. So in automatics the starter terminal 50 is disconnected from the dash wiring whenever the shifter is in gear. So in automatics VW ran an extra wire from the starter motor to the dash so options that needed a constant starter solenoid connection could have one.
The wire does appear in the Bentley diagrams but not completely or correctly.
...
The automatics with 2 red/black wires to the starter feed the second wire all the way back to the dash to make it available for use by the aux battery relay and/or the fridge relay. It was also fed to the seat belt reminder module.
For 90/91 you can see it on Bentley page 97.220
For 87-89 it is on page 97.172 and this one makes it a little clearer what the wire does.
Mark |
Confirmed in my auto trans '90 Westy with a continuity test: Red/white wire at the starter ultimately ends up inside the auxiliary battery box as a red/black wire for the Dometic fridge cut-out relay.
Pic of said red/white wire at the starter:
Replaced the decade-old (and filthy) IMI starter with a TDI starter + adapter from T3 Technique (interesting side note: my '90 auto trans has a threaded bottom hole, thus no stud to remove; simply had to swap the hex head bolt out for the included Allen bolt). Since the terminal 30 post is quite a bit shorter, I removed the original alternator wire and replaced it with a 6 AWG wire I already had on-hand with 5/16" ring terminals. I removed the factory black disconnect covers and used a 4-pin connector for the terminal 50 wires.
Since the CV spews grease no matter how hard I try to contain it, making an absolute mess of the starter over time, and since I can no longer use that fantastic factory terminal boot, I wrapped this new starter with a heat shield in an effort to keep it relatively clean.
While nothing wrong with them, I also, for good measure, replaced the battery ground with a new, insulated hefty version. Of course, also bought a brand new, pretty red 2/0 battery cable (both came from https://www.batterycablesusa.com/ ) along with new military-spec terminals and... original cable wouldn't budge up at the front; it's stuck somewhere above the fuel tank  , so that job has to wait for another day since the tank is brim full.
While the no-start issue was completely random out on the road, it did occur every time the van sat for longer than a week (jump-pack would always bring it back to life; and, no, the battery was/is absolutely, positively not the problem; nor were/are the cables/wires... all of that was tested). Van has been sitting in the garage for a month now... with new TDI starter, it fired right up! 
Since many/most of the IMI starters tend to fail within a few years, or so I keep reading, I'm thankful this little guy lasted for exactly 10 years (installed in 2015).
_________________
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
