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vr6 swap?
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vw8716v
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: vr6 swap? Reply with quote

im looking to do this swap to keep my westy all og. and i have a few questions
1st is what adapter plate and tourqe plate to use for the automatic
2nd is can the vr6 be mounted at an angle like the inline 4's or does it need to be straight up and raise the decklid
3rd any pictures of this swap
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

??? WBX is OG.
The only VR6 I have seen was in a doka and he complained that it hung down too low for driving off road- http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/printer_1130.shtml

1.8T is a really nice motor conversion if you need to keep it a VW powerplant.
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vw8716v
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats a sweet rig! as for the off road im not worried since thats not what i do. pavement only, maybe a nice dirt road when camping. Laughing
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a VR6 swap out in the classifieds from time to time.
It's a very tall engine and requires quite an intrusion into the rear bed.
No you can not lean it over, it's already a V of sorts.

Kennedy engineered products, http://www.kennedyeng.com/ *edit DOH... that's what I get for posting hastily
not sure they have one listed, but can/do make em by order.
with a gallery search.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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James 93SLC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:

No you can not lean it over, it's already a V of sorts.


The V is internal, so that doesn't have anything to do with being unable to lean it. More accurately is a short wide in-line six cylinder.

It is a tall engine with a fairly deep pan. It's a tight squeeze in my Corrado. I'm a bit disappointed that this engine doesn't fit better in the Vanagon, as I absolutely love the VR6. The sound and torque it has is heavenly.

Leaning it probably wouldn't net much. If the intake manifold was swapped for a short runner design, then you might get better decklid clearance.

FYI Kennedy is: http://www.kennedyeng.com/
Not www.kep.com
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Bern
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did this swap 2 years ago.

if you look in my history i'm sure you'll find the build thread. the pictures are no longer up and i'm looking at rectifying that, but until then, if you need some i can email something to you...

a quick rundown:

its a tall motor, i have heard of people fitting it under the decklid but you're killing your ground clearance doing so..... i opted to sacrifice my decklid to keep the ground clearance, and now i have more ground clearance than the waterboxer. However, i do have an "extended" engine decklid. the motor height is about 4-5" higher than the deck of a standard van.... I made a fiberglass engine lid to cover it.

thats really the only downside to the VR, is the added height. sure, you could maybe find a middle ground and have less of a decklid height, but its all up to you. i plan to end up with sleeping accomodations on my roof so losing the lower "bed" was really no big deal to me.

there are quite a few ins and outs to this swap. but i honestly think its pretty easy and the results are awesome.

the VR is quite a simple motor and its been dead nuts reliable for me.
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Beetsport Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: vr6 swap? Reply with quote

vw8716v wrote:
im looking to do this swap to keep my westy all og. and i have a few questions
1st is what adapter plate and tourqe plate to use for the automatic
2nd is can the vr6 be mounted at an angle like the inline 4's or does it need to be straight up and raise the decklid
3rd any pictures of this swap


The VR6 is a great engine, but I have to question why besides being all VW. It does not fit into the Vanagon body to well unless you have a Crew cab etc.. Ground clearance loss and also loosing the bed area not to mention the deck lid being raised..

You can get just as much power (or even more) out of the 1.8T and not loose as much area... Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Bern
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are several reasons i went with a vr6 over a 1.8t.... now, not debating that the potential for more power is certainly there, and it is a great motor for sure... but there are a couple reasons the VR was a good option

1. cost. vr swaps are half or less the cost of a complete 1.8t cost.

2. swap simplicity. while either way its not going to be a really difficult swap, the vr is definately easier not having to deal with boost tubes and all the other nifty engine management stuff

3. trail repair simplicity/reliability. not attacking the 1.8t in the reliability department (as long as you carry a few extra coilpacks with you Wink )... but if you DO have an issue out in the woods or something along those lines, you aren't dealing with the added complexity of a turbo motor. sure you tuck everything out of the way and make this as much of a non-issue as possible. but as we all know, something can always go wrong, and it would be a shame to have something as minor as a cracked boost tube ruin a trip or at least negatively affect it.

4. power wise there is alot of "untapped" power in a vr6... it seems like a good time to plug in the old saying "no replacement for displacement"... the 1.8t does really well with a chip and some other quick plug in stuff, but then you're stressing that itty bitty little ko3 turbo on there, and thats not something you want to do for the sake of reliability. the vr starts to stretch its legs a bit more with the addition of a chip, since its in the back of the van it is going to have a much shorter exhaust than stock which opens up even more breathing room, plus you can always throw some cams at it. and if you're really feeling frisky? you can add boost to it, there are several very reliable forced induction kits out there, or you can build your own.


that covers the major ones, there are some other little things that aren't really worth mentioning. bottom line is the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone wants something different out of their van/motor swap. i can honestly say the ONLY thing that could be considered a "downside" to a vr is the deck height, and again, you can address that in several different ways.
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Beetsport Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your right.. it is in the eye of the beholder.. I didn't mean to come across as knocking the VR6 at all. Very Happy It is a wonderful engine. Each and every concersion has it's super great points and not so good for all of us. I'll admit that the 1.8T does not have the lower end grunt like a VR6 or Subi or TDI engines but still maintains better stock performance down low.. Once above 1800 or so it's all fair game.. Fuel mileage and power are what I am after Laughing

Here is what my eye looks at.. Going into a Syncro Westy. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

320hp 340ft.lb. torque.. Reliable.






Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Keep off the right foot for decent fuel mileage.. But why..?
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2116800
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=217285


Last edited by Beetsport on Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm... engine porn Twisted Evil
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ftp2leta
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have test driven a 1.8T first gen (I thhink) and a very nice TDI this past weekend at a big VW show.

The TDI is nice with good torque, the vibration was moderate, power is ok and feel like a good 2.1L with way more torque. The 1.8T was very sweet, low vibration and good power, i think he told be he had about 170hp or so. Both conversion where DIY and extremely well done, both guys are mechanic and machined some of their own parts. Cost was pretty high for the TDI, around 11k$ CAD. Lower for the 1.8T.
The 1.8T felt close in power to a stock 2.5L Subi, less then mine but i'm no reference.

The 1.8T guy told me he is not sure he would do such a conversion again, i don't know what that mean, it was one sweet conversion.

A funny note on the VR6, wile coming back yesterday from that VW show, a VR6 Eurovan (i think it's the old one, 155hp or so) was pushing me on the freeway, it's a better handling van than the Vanagon and it was windy, still, he had no chance. I know the guy and when i slowed down to drive normally, he pass me and gave me the thumb up.

I was happy to see some nice other make conversion well done, i'm so deep into Subaru that i have a tendency to forget other possibility. Those guys are no purist so it made the discussion so interesting, i should have taken pictures.

This Quebec show had 265 vans, mostly Vanagon. They have 1150 member, it's a very big club for such a small Province.

Ben
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ftp2leta wrote:
This Quebec show had 265 vans, mostly Vanagon. They have 1150 member, it's a very big club for such a small Province.
Ben


Quebec Population: Quebec is home to 7,560,592 people, according to a census in 2005, with constant newcomers.

Not that small Ben. #2 maybe?

if it was a US state it would be #12 ?
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"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
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jacob.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beetsport, thats a beautiful engine compartment. What is the 1.8T? I've never heard of it. I imagine T is for turbo, and if its turbo, i'd venture to guess its another diesel conversion like the tdi?
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacob. wrote:
Beetsport, thats a beautiful engine compartment. What is the 1.8T? I've never heard of it. I imagine T is for turbo, and if its turbo, i'd venture to guess its another diesel conversion like the tdi?


normally lives here,


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and here,


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Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
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H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR
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jacob.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What car is that, a vw gti? It kind of looks like a 20th anniversary gti.

And it must be really expensive too.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And it must be really expensive too.


Why, just because the house is for sale to pay for it? Laughing
I think that motor came in late model Golf, GTI, Jetta, Passat, New Beetle and Audi A4
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Beetsport Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1.8T that we use comes from a 2003 or newer GTI, Jetta or Golf with an engine code of AWP. They are gas and are Turbo engines.

Sweet GTI 240Gordy!!!
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jaredmarcucci
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject: That engine!! Reply with quote

That engine is one amazing piece of art. Beetsport's work is like no others. If you want a 1.8T conversion he is the man!Smile
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beetsport wrote:
Sweet GTI 240Gordy!!!


sadly it is not mine. I wanted to depict the 1.8T in its normal habitat, a fast car on the autobahn.
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Beetsport Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you captured it. Wish we had those great roads... Very Happy but those drivers too.. Laughing
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