58-65 drum brakes on an oval

[edward_cardus]

Hi All,

I'm replacing my oval's original drum brakes all round with the ones from a 58-65 car.

My question is that whilst I need to fit everything from the backing plates outwards, does this also include the cast bearing caps on the rear, or can I reuse the oval's original caps? It is still running it's original short axles and tubes.

Cheers,
Ed

[johnshenry]

I believe that those bearing caps didn't change between oval and post oval, but you'd probably want to check that. If you can get an oval one and compare it, you should be able to tell. I know that the seal did not change (111598051A) all the way up until '68, so I can't imagine the cap changing.
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[Snort]

That depends on what kind of oil slinger setup you have. If you stick with the oil slinger that fits into the brake drum, then you can keep the early style bearing cap. If you go with the oil slinger that fits the bearing cap and discharges the oil out the backside of the backing plate, then you need the later style.

[OvalWindowBucket]

[edward_cardus]

Excellent, thanks for all the help guys, I hadn't even given thought to the oil slinger. In that case, I guess I'll retain the oval bearing cap and drill the hole for the end of the oil slinger.

Thanks again,
Ed

[petrol punk]

I had to grind part of the bearing cap to fit the later backing plates, but remember that converting to later rear brakes doesn't actually increase the size of the drums like on the front. I think it changed the size of the wheel cylinder though. Not worth it IMO unless you already have no rear braking parts.
_________________
36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval
'70 bug 1835cc

[OvalWindowBucket]

I had no such issues with oval bearing caps and 58-65 backing plates.. ?

[drscope]

[OvalWindowBucket]

[HenrikL]

As far as I can remember there are three sets of backing plates and bearing caps:

1952-57 stock Oval

1958-64 are slightly thicker than the 52-57 backing plates

1965-66 no oil slinger - oil drains through hole in backing plate

You should not mix and match these. Use the bearing caps and backing plates as the factory intended. 1958-64 backing plates with 1952-57 bearing caps will give play in the bearings.

[OvalWindowBucket]

[Snort]

[OvalWindowBucket]

This is the only picture I have to show right now. This is a picture of my brake setup from a while back. They fit on the backing plate fine as far as I can tell and look to have the curve you talk about for the 58-63 caps? Maybe they were replaced at some point, but they came off my 2-bolt oval brakes and oval axle tubes. If you double click the pic it is a little larger..

EDIT: Oval bearing caps do have 2 curved sides:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1927160&highlight=#1927160

[Snort]

That does look like the 58-63 style. I looked at the thread you pointed to on the different caps showing different bearing depths which was very interesting. I like the fact that he is measuring both the cap depth and the axle tube bearing seat, which makes more sense than any change in backing plate thickness. The cap I measured is closest to his second photo which he measured .379 inches (my measurement converts to .366 inches). nlorntson showed that his axle tube casting was .266 inches deep, and concluded he needed a deep bearing cap, but his bearing protruded from his deep cap .412 inches, so I assume the excess came from the backing plate.

I suppose it is also possible that the bearing cap was not designed to contact the bearing face anyway, so that the bearing can float, with the centre race doing the job of positioning the bearing when the drum is fastened to the axle. If this is the case, then the depth of the bearing cap should only be a problem if it is too shallow to fit the bearing. But then, why would VW change these dimensions at all, unless perhaps they also changed the axle tube seat and the bearing cap to reflect a change in the axle where the inner bearing race pushes against it?

[johan_l]

I had to make a thin washer to keep the bearing from moving. It was about 10 yrs ago I did the swap, so I don't exactly remember the year of the "donor", but I think 63 or 64. "Small window" almost certainly, which would roule out a 65?
_________________
Johan, Sweden
1960 Karmann-Ghia coupé
1957 Oval window
Bastard Split window <-- Translate

[OvalWindowBucket]

[Snort]

I measured the thickness of two styles of backing plates today, at the point where they fit between the axle tube and the bearing cap. The 52-57 style was 0.45mm. The 58-63 style was 0.50mm. I don't know how that relates yet to the different axle tube designs, but I thought I would post it up as part of the general discussion in case anyone can use it.

[johan_l]

[OvalWindowBucket]

After getting the drums & wheels on and the car off the jack stands, I realized what you were talking about. I do have play in my rear bearings, and the later backing plate is about a millimeter thicker than the oval so I believe thats where the play comes from. The bearing cap needs to be a hair shallower for the bearing to seat in there properly.

I need to get the proper later bearing caps now. I could try to make up some washers some how but then Id still need to drill my drums and Im thinking id like to use weep hole instead.

[pig-pen]