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Still a lil lost about Zetec...
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cactuschris
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Still a lil lost about Zetec... Reply with quote

Ill make this short to avoid boring details that are irrealavant....


I'm broke, i just moved off a sailboat after a year into my van, in wich i met my 1982 Air cooled Vanagon for $1800 bucks, with an amazing body and impecable interior. Transaxle is still VERY good condition, must of been kept right..? everything on this thing is awesome, except motor wich pretty much blew up on a camping trip, and if it were a human it would best be described as "bleeding from every pore" and is beyond my financial or mechanical (or anyone down here i've called {beaufort, SC}) expertise. cant afford to send off and wait months and pay alot.

So im thinking zetec after finding them to be VERY reasonably priced and seem to be worth it too (whole other thread). i can't seem to find a good step by step side and dont have the time to really find all the bits and pieces all over the web (need this done quickly) so can anyone help me find a guide? and answer a few ?'s ?

like..what do i do about the radiator placement...like it doesnt seem to make sense to stick it in the back with motor and mine's air cooled and doesnt have one in front...

do i keep my transaxle or get another outta a focus or w/e..?

what about brains?


im also considering the equally infamous subaru conversion and have pretty much the same questions (i think ive decided on the 2.2 option)


any guidance thats not jsut "read read read" is strongly welcomed.
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jacob.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres a guide, from the bostig site. Videos and text.
http://www.bostig.com/support/bostig-v20-support-pd

you keep the stock transaxle, some people decide to have it rebuilt, but not necessary.

I don't know about radiator placement. sorry.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really are broke as you say and need to get back on the road, Bostig or Subaru is not a budget-conscious solution. If there is nobody in the area with any expertise, including yourself, then the Bostic/Subaru route would be even less advised. You can get a stock-fit no-mess engine from many rebuilders for less than 3 grand. I think AVP has aircooled Vanagon engines for $1800. It ain't the best engine but your premise was that you were broke.

Sorry, but "read read read" is what you're gonna have to do. No one her will make your decisions for you.

Good luck AND KEEP US POSTED!
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Alaric.H
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a aircooled motor it will be a lot harder finding a used one that is in good shap would be the easy way.
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snowsyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm...

For what it is worth...If by very reasonably priced you are taking about the Ford Zetec engine itself being very reasonably priced, that is true. Or, if you are talking about the total (say Bostig) conversion price being reasonably priced, that is true too, if you have the money. But, if you are broke, then any conversion from air-cooled to water-cooled is going to put quite a lot of pressure on your available funds, I would think.

If it were me (and you're not me); and you just want to get mobile, then I would be looking for the cheapest running air-cooled engine I could find nearby, and solicit some help from the local vanagon community to get it in there. Then, when you get back on your feet, you could have a look at a conversion. Money or no money, converting an air-cooled Westy to a water-cooled conversion is usually not a quick process, or a predictable one.

Just my thoughts -- good luck.

RonC
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cactuschris
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm more than willing to dip into the going from sc to boone, nc to see my girlfriend, and junk food and beer funds to have a motor (as reliable and easy to find a mechanic for) as a conversion for subies or zetec (not nessicarily from bostig) than to have a bandaid of a rebuild on my current one (or not know what im getting) with a new one.

Im not worried about having someone who's done it before, i can learn anything i read and or watch a video on. plus if it ever fails, i put everything where it is and so i could work on it myself in sticky situations. i think personally its the best decision LONG run, wich id make sacrifices financially for now. (single no kids so i still can do that)

what about brains? thanks for the transaxle answer bud!

and would mounting it be a fabrication job?

if nessicary, to save funds, what do you think about used zetec engines? like out of rear end totaled focouses and foresters? or used cooling systems (poss with a new engine, and not used as described directly above) or should i trust nothing used?

i'd like this cross country reliable if u know what i mean.
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jeremysmithatshawdotca
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think nearly everyone who has put a Zetec in has gone with a Bostig kit. You'd need to mount the rad in the front, just like a water cooled vanagon, which would involve cutting the hole, and putting in a lower grill too. It's not a quick, easy, cheap solution.
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Converting from an air cooled to a water cooled doesn't seem like a cheap easy solution to me either for someone who is broke. Rebuilding the aircooled is pretty straighforward and there are many books that can help you do it. It's the cheapest solution.
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buildyourown
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conversions cost money.
Look at Bostig for what's involved in the zetec conversion. Watch the videos. You can't buy parts without going all in so unless you are going to design and fab your own adapter et al, you need to pay them thier $4500.

You can buy the Suby parts ala cart from small car and come out for less money, but it's not as turn key.

The "brains" are included in the bostig kit. With a suby, you either pay small car $800 to mod your harness or sit down with a label maker and 10ft drawing and blow 40-50hrs DIY.

Either way, you can scavenge a cooling system out of a later watercooled van.
There isn't a cheap way to do it.
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cactuschris
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so would i have to get a performance water pump and also add more fluid (to fill up allll the extra long hoses and to power the water enough that it doesnt loose velocity) and run hoses under neath to the front modified radiator (would one even fit there?)?

im willing to trickle more money over a longer period of time for reliability. its not so much a question of rebuild or convert anymore, its how...and where to get the parts...tricks, problems, motivation why its a good thing...cheaper options etc
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Home Team Van
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting an aircooled motor back in will be your quickest and cheapest route. Going the Bostig route will cost around 6k(someone please correct me if I'm off on that number) if you're installing on a watercooled Vanagon. You have an aircooled so there will be more hassle and cost added on. Try this guy in N Charleston,RPM Services, Rhett 843-225-9399. You can also try Teutonix Import Service at 843-689-5431 in Hilton Head.

If I was in your situation and was dead set on a watercooled engine then I'd get rid of the aircooled van and buy a watercooled at least to start with.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of the questions and issue you are asking about have been addressed. There are many, many threads on TheSamba and even whole websites that will tell you everything you need to know about any type of conversion. From your questions, I can see you would do yourself a world of good by doing your research.

Again, sorry, but read, read, read. If you're not willing to take the time to do the research then a full-on conversion might not be for you. Go to Kennedy Engineering, go to Bostig, go to Smallcar - do your research.

As you had stated earlier, you claim to be broke. Is this the case? How much do you want to spend? Are you prepared to drop at least six-thousand dollars? If not, then converting an air-cooler into a water-cooled conversion is way beyond you.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cactuschris wrote:
so would i have to get a performance water pump and also add more fluid (to fill up allll the extra long hoses and to power the water enough that it doesnt loose velocity) and run hoses under neath to the front modified radiator (would one even fit there?)


Also, are you kidding?
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your project will fail unless you are prepared to feed it. Conversions are not always that straightforward even when things go your way especially for a air-cooled --> water-cooled engine. This is not a project to attempt when your cash flow is hurting. The best thing to do is fix your engine or buy another vehicle until you get on your feet. In the meantime you can read and study your options so that you make the best decision for your set of circumstances. Once you are flush with cash go for it.

Just my 2
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cactuschris
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i appreciate the input deprivation. I'm obviously new and not up to your expertise, something a lil less descriminating would have been nice though. It would be horrible for me to loose another productive and rewarding hobbie only for me to loose interest because of anther unwelcoming community, especially while already having a hard time with things. I hope i dont continue to run into shady or unwilling mechanics and post like your last.

For the hopefully more welcoming members of this community, I have found a supposedly strong good engine (b/c it was replaced with a bostig, supposedly nothings wrong with it, just wanted a bostig instead) for a price definately within my budget since i can drop her in myself on base (the command has a hobby shop with every tool under the sun i can use anytime) for 750 bucks. problem is he doesnt wanna ship it, and prefers a local pick up. any chance you guys know somthing to help seeming im all the way across the country?
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hiram6
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To sum up:

    you have to buy the bostig kit from bostig, $5000
    you have to source a used engine $500 +/-
    you need anther few hundred dollars worth of various parts, which bostig provides you a list of.
    you will need to install a radiator, radiator fan, wiring, cooling hoses, etc. Will likely need to get all of this from a wrecked watercooled vanagon
    you will also need to source and install a heater box and associated ducts if you want heat.

    Getting the picture here? This is a not a simple slap it in, cheap project.


    For the $6000 minimum you are looking at spending here, you could go in two other directions. a) for $6K you could get your air cooled engine rebuilt and all sorted out, or (b) sell your van and take that money and the $6K and buy a water cooled van. Run the stock waterboxer for a few years until you are financially more prepared to invest in something as exotic as an engine conversion

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiram6 wrote:
To sum up:

    you have to buy the bostig kit from bostig, $5000
    you have to source a used engine $500 +/-
    you need anther few hundred dollars worth of various parts, which bostig provides you a list of.
    you will need to install a radiator, radiator fan, wiring, cooling hoses, etc. Will likely need to get all of this from a wrecked watercooled vanagon
    you will also need to source and install a heater box and associated ducts if you want heat.

    Getting the picture here? This is a not a simple slap it in, cheap project.


    For the $6000 minimum you are looking at spending here, you could go in two other directions. a) for $6K you could get your air cooled engine rebuilt and all sorted out, or (b) sell your van and take that money and the $6K and buy a water cooled van. Run the stock waterboxer for a few years until you are financially more prepared to invest in something as exotic as an engine conversion


That is just in parts too.... All labor on your own
Allot of work to convert an Air cooled
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a realistic view of what it takes to swap an inline 4 watercooled engine (VW in this case, but most of the rules apply) into an aircooled Vanagon, a guy who posts under the name Vanagon Nut has done a well-documented conversion. You might try finding his posts or PM him just to find out what's in store for you. His was a homebrewed swap and he had to fabricate a lot of stuff, but his tenacity and thoroughness were admirable.

I wish you luck on the venture but vote for getting an interim aircooled engine to get you running again, THEN consider a swap. If the AC engine is still good you can always sell it and put those funds (and plenty more, I'll bet) into your conversion.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cactuschris wrote:
i appreciate the input deprivation.


Good.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

For the $6000 minimum you are looking at spending here, you could go in two other directions. a) for $6K you could get your air cooled engine rebuilt and all sorted out, or (b) sell your van and take that money and the $6K and buy a water cooled van. Run the stock waterboxer for a few years until you are financially more prepared to invest in something as exotic as an engine conversion


You could buy a Caravan Laughing
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