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BajaOrBust
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Sun Diego
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: Roof soop?? |
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| I'm looking at getting an external oil cooler and want Use a roof scoop for it. Every scoop I see says I need a" small Oil cooler" but I don't exactly know what size small actually is. I can get a cooler from work with a thermostat and everything for 60 bucks but I'm not sure if it's too large, the dimensions are 7.5 x 12.5 inches and 3/4 inch thick. Is that too large? If it is, what are some alternative mounting locations for the cooler? |
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Axitech
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2011
Posts: 1267
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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If you put an external cooler on, you absolutely need to put in a thermostatically controlled diverter valve too! With one, no cooler is too big. It will simply cool the oil and when it gets too cool, it will divert it past the cooler. Without it, your oil may never reach operating temps and that is horrible. Acids and corrosive laced water forms in oil that never gets warmed up.
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He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson |
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BajaOrBust
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Sun Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah the kit I can get from work has the thermostat divider, I just don't know if that cooler will fit in a roof scoop |
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KrAzY-BaJa
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Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 1409
Location: Sacramento CA.
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BajaOrBust
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Sun Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Doesn't the rising heat from the engine kind of defeat the purpose though if you're on the firewall? |
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BajaPete69
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Joined: April 16, 2009
Posts: 142
Location: Hacienda Heights, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Empi makes a cooler that for that scoop. I believe its part number 9271, couldnt find it in the online catalog though, try contacting them.
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BajaOrBust
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Sun Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah I've seen it in a kit but it's cheaper for me to get the scoop and the cooler from work. But I guess it looks like I have to have that particular cooler. |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Why do you need an external oil cooler?
What kind of fan shroud do you have?
How big is your engine?
Are your oil temps getting to high?
If you have a dog house fan shroud, an engine that is 2l or less, but your oil temps are high, just take some compressed air and blow out the fins of your oil cooler. Then your oil cooler will work fine and your oil temps will be happy.
Simple as that.
Don't make this more complicated than it has to be.
All this talk of external oil coolers is nice and all, but the truth is that they are rarely ever needed. People make more problems when they try to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place. In other words, adding external oil coolers can actually be a downgrade.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5553
Location: Lefty, CA
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BajaOrBust
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Sun Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
Why do you need an external oil cooler?
What kind of fan shroud do you have?
How big is your engine?
Are your oil temps getting to high?
If you have a dog house fan shroud, an engine that is 2l or less, but your oil temps are high, just take some compressed air and blow out the fins of your oil cooler. Then your oil cooler will work fine and your oil temps will be happy.
Simple as that.
Don't make this more complicated than it has to be.
All this talk of external oil coolers is nice and all, but the truth is that they are rarely ever needed. People make more problems when they try to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place. In other words, adding external oil coolers can actually be a downgrade. |
I'm building a 2180 and I live in southern california where the summers are not too cool and neither is the desert which is why I'm looking into the external coolers. Previously, my oil temps were screaming and I'm hoping to fix that problem and run as cool as possible. |
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utahclaimjumper
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Cedar City, Ut.
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| I've used mine in all kinds of weather and temps, the external cooler is mounted in front of the fan air inlet, works great and not open to damage.>>>Dan |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| utahclaimjumper wrote: |
| I've used mine in all kinds of weather and temps, the external cooler is mounted in front of the fan air inlet, works great and not open to damage.>>>Dan |
yee olde method to wearing down engine life.
I've driven through all of san Diego and and east on the s22 with no external and have been fine all year round. my 1641 is a tad smaller, but all you need is a doghouse cooler.
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'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
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utahclaimjumper
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Cedar City, Ut.
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Another country heard from, but "old school" has been around for a long long time.>>>Dan (And so has this engine) |
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tripicana
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Joined: February 13, 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: colorado springs
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Roof is a terrible place for oil cooler. Not only the line restriction in the hoses to reach it, branches can snag it, and you're screwed of you ever do roll it.
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5820
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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branches can snag it, and you're screwed of you ever do roll it.
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In the Sandy Eggo area where BajaOrBust lives and even in the surrounding mountains, and especially out in the not too far away deserts of SoCal, branches really are NOT an issue for roof scoops. In Tennessee or Michigan or other points east or way north in Oregon-Washington...YEAH!
Rollovers...Then a roofscoop cooler is a potential issue anywhere. I've had a cooler under the back window of my Baja for 4 decades. Never been a problem. But then I operate under the philosophy that "inverted operation is prohibited". I tested my Bug inverted BEFORE it was converted to a Baja.  But not since.  I've seen coolers smashed under the rear window in a rollover as well as roof top mount. But it's less likely.
Mounting a VW oil cooler under the rear package shelf/above the trans gets virtually 0 air flow and is subject to rocks, mud and other debris getting kicked up.
Mounting it over the fan shroud intake pre-heats the air to the cylinders and increases cylinder temps noticeably. not a big issue for cooler climates than SoCal. But my personal experience here is that it's not a good location. for instance, our forecast for this week is for temps to reach triple digits in many of the urban areas. And it's the middle of May.
For an offroad only car, it's good to mount a cooler in the back of the cockpit to the roll cage where air coming through window openings with no glass cools the oil.
In a Class 11 style Bug or a street full body Bug, the vents under the back window provide virtually ALL of the cooling air into the engine compartment. So for that sort of Bug, I don't recommend mounting a cooler under the rear window for the same reasons as mounting it on the fan shroud intake.
But a Baja Bug gets air swirling around the back of the car and really very little of the cooling air going into the fan passes through those vents under the window. Especially if the sheet metal under the firewall and the inner fender panels behind the firewall are removed.
For a mostly stock 1600, a "Doghouse" cooler is fine by itself without additional external cooler.
For ANY air-cooled VW, I recommend AGAINST using the early style STEEL cooler inside the fan shroud that air blows through on the way to the #3 and 4 cylinders. But a later style "doghouse" ALUMINUM cooler that is inside the fan shroud, but the air passes through it and then out without passing over cylinders is GREAT!
A LOT of people these days are calling the whole fan shroud a "doghouse". That is VERY WRONG!!!!!!
The "doghouse" is just like the name says, a smaller house in the back of the main house (fanshroud). This style of cooler and shroud were installed by VW from 1971-on. Many other VWs have had aftermarket "doghouse" shrouds and coolers installed or had the original replaced with a doghouse from a later Bug.
For BajaOrBust with a 2180 and apparently a fair amount of street use in SoCal, I recommend a Doghouse cooler, plus a full-flow under the rear window or in a roof scoop.
Way back in the 1980s, Tom and Bob Neth who are well-known fabricators from the North-County area had a 5-1600 Baja with a cooler mounted inside the rear part of the roof. It was boxed away from the interior with sheet aluminum and it had NACA ducts in the roof for air intake and outlet. Probably the slickest setup yet on a Baja Bug. I've never seen it duplicated.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5820
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's kinda surprising that nobody has mentioned it before but I'm sure we all understood that BajaOrBust intended the title of this thread to read "Roof Scoop". But if you roll the car over on a cooler inside of a roof scoop, you're liable to wind up with "roof soup".
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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dog house cooler setup from Mr. Bill:
you could use this as a jerry-rig cabin heater
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Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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