Which rocker arm style to use

[vw donvieira]

OK i am in conflict here. I am building a mild 2017cc motor and my builder doesn't want to shim the rockers if possible. I will give you my setup and then please assist:

DD 2017cc for bus
40x35 full p/p heads from Wolfgang Int.
ACE vw rocker shafts/arms
Web 163 cam (in between an engle 110 and 120)
Brand new AS41 case decked and machined at Brothers VW

Now if I were to use the adjusters with the pushrod side adjustment can I possibly get away with not shimming the rocker assembly?

If that would work, will the valve stem stay intact or will it prematurely wear?

Thanks, vwdon

[juki48]

who is the builder? they should know you have to setup the rocker geometry.

[BugMan114]

X2. You almost always have to shim the rocker arms when installing to get the correct height. whats his reason for not using shims? sounds like he's lazy, and wants something to just bolt on. there are absolutely NO downsides to shimming. better watch out for that mechanic. i sure hope he's doing all the nessecary adjustments and checks to the motor.

I recently bought a set of latest rage ratio 1.25 rockers, with solid bolt together shafts, with the adjustment on the pushrod side, and i didn't need any shims. obviously you will need shorter pushrods, i went with chromoly. i made 2 trips to and from tennesse in 2 days for a total of 600 Miles, and have since put another 400 miles on the car. just checked the valves today, and they didn't need any adjusting. i also have dual valve springs. so over 1000 miles, and everything is in perfect shape, no play anywhere.
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1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR

Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!

[vw donvieira]

My builder is "old school" German. For the last 35 years all he has done is Type 1 upright motors. He loves stock motors and doesn't like to mess with the rocker geometry by shimming the rockers. Super old school German to say the least. Doesn't like to change the tried/true design of these motors. Perhaps I'll have him build it to the heads and I'll have Hot Rod Hayes does the rockers. I am going to get dual aluminum taper pushrods cut to length.
Thanks vwdon

[vwracerdave]

Shimming the rockers is the Ghetto way to set rocker geomerty. I DO NOT use rocker shims on any of my engines.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[vw donvieira]

What do you suggest?
Thanks vwdon

[damicotile]

No shims under my Scat 1.25 rockers either. Got shorter push rods.
You start putting shims under the rockers and then the adjusters hit the stock covers and shave metal which gets into the engine.
That old German has the right idea.
It all about the push rods and geometry.
I ordered a set of HD Alum push rods from aircooled.net but gave them the old measurement and they made them up before I caught my mistake.
had to have another set made. Costly mistake.
I felt like a complete dolt!
_________________
'73 SB
82x94
W-120 w/ CB light weight lifters
Silicon bronze sleeves
Scat 1.25:1
CB H-Beams
Straight cuts
42x37 Steve Tims
44 IDF's
9.2:1
A-1 Sidewinder coated

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[jfats808]

Nothing wrong with old school german engine builders. For performance, I would have someone with more experience dealing with the intricacies of setting up a performance engine. Ive also had good experience with Scat Pro series rockers, 1.25 and 1.4's. Only problem i had ( yesterday) was a broken adjuster cup. IMO would be a good idea to have a few of those on hand for this purpose. Just my opinion on this matter. GL-Jon
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2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD

[modok]

I assume ACE rockers are German 1.1:1 on shafts with better retaining clips.
You will not need any shims to use stock rockers, perhaps just lashcaps to get a little more stem height in respect for your highlift cam.

If you add Porsche swivel foot adjusters to these rockers, shims may be needed to make up for how the swivel foot extends the stem height.
This is well known, CB swivels come with .060 shims in the package.

If you use a different kind of rocker, I don't know what will be needed to make them work best. For a DD stock rockers are probably a safer choice.

[vw donvieira]

Yes modok Ihave the ACE German rockers 1.1:1 by Art.
So if I use lash caps can I use the stock German adjusters or will I still need the swivel foot (I actually have the Ford currier)?
Thanks vwdon

[modok]

That's right, lash caps and regular(stock) adjusters should work fine. No shims, should be cheap and effective.

OR, you can use your ford swivels and no lash caps, but with these you ought to have at least .060 shims under the rocker blocks.
I prefer the porsche type swivels to the ford type, but I have run the ford type in two engines and nothing bad happened, so they work too.
Are fancy swivel adjusters needed with your mild setup? Naw, probably not needed.

[vw donvieira]

Who makes the most durable lash caps?
Thanks, vwdon

[Sigurd]

[vw donvieira]

So lash caps vs. swivel feet. What down side do lash caps have over not having to shim the rockers up with swivel feet?
Thanks, vwdon

[vw donvieira]

I spoke with Web and they recommend a 1.25:1 rocker sao I bougt the the scat billet rockers witht he adjuster on the pushrod. Tus after having pushrods made I should not need to shim the rockers. VWdon

[Sigurd]

[1432]

pushrod length does not create correct geometry, correct geometry creates pushrod length

[Sigurd]

Right, that's why I brought it up. It's too easy to just cut them and think that because the adjuster is on the pushrod end that you don't have to get a correct length and that's not the case.

[deadkombi]

What was the outcome to your rocker drama? I have just discoverd the same trying to set these up on my 2276. Apparently shims are not needed, but machining the rocker pedestals or rocker blocks to move the rockers closer to the head. That will move the wipe pattern closer to the centre of the valve. Is this the case. Rockers are the same scat 1.25 pro rockers.

Also have heard that the ratio on these is closer to 1.38!

[QRP]