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ivwshane
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Location: Sacramento ca
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 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:18 pm Post subject: Failed smog high HC's |
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I originally took my bus in to get smoged back in October and it failed only because of a gas cap. My dumb ass decided to replace the cap as well as replace the points with an electronic ignition. This led me to have to time my bus which was a first for me. The bus ran fine except that the exhaust smelt rich and a re occuring problem was bugging me where my bus would stall after getting warm. I replaced the TS2 and the fuel filter.
I took the bus to kombi haus to get the stalling fixed. They found a vacum leak in the S boot and I replaced it with a GeeBee aftermarket one. They also fixed the EGR system and checked timing and other things. After I got the bus back no more stalling and the bus ran fine so I took it in for a smog re test and it failed due to high HC's.
Here are the numbers I'll put the old numbers when it passed and before any changes were made to the right:
15MPH
RPM: 2502-----2352
CO2% = 14.99-----13.21
25MPH: 2375-----2413
CO2% = 15.14-----13.46
O2%
15MPH = .02-----2.5
25MPH = .02-----2.18
HC
15MPH = 390-----201
25MPH = 297-----107
CO%
15MPH = .49-----.06
25MPH = .28-----.01
NO
15MPH = 28-----1026
25MPH = 20-----1075
Who can help me? I've driven less than 1000 miles since my last full tune up so I'm at a loss right now and these smog tests are killing my wallet:(
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SGKent 
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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looks like it is too rich. Check to see that the TSII is making good connection. Also it could be that the PO tampered with the mixture and that is why it is too rich. I base the too rich on the low O2, high HC and high CO. For what it is worth, it is very close to being perfect but just a little across the line it appears. It looks like it needs just a bit less fuel to turn some of those HC's and CO into completely burned fuel. Also your NOX is low which means it is burning cold and on the rich side. As you lean it out the NOX will go up.
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ivwshane
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Joined: May 19, 2011
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Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| looks like it is too rich. Check to see that the TSII is making good connection. Also it could be that the PO tampered with the mixture and that is why it is too rich. I base the too rich on the low O2, high HC and high CO. For what it is worth, it is very close to being perfect but just a little across the line it appears. It looks like it needs just a bit less fuel to turn some of those HC's and CO into completely burned fuel. Also your NOX is low which means it is burning cold and on the rich side. As you lean it out the NOX will go up. |
That requires me to mess with the AFM right? Not being an expert and not having a meter I thought that messing with that was a no no?
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curtis4085
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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You can run it by a smog shop or any mechanic with a exhaust sniffer/gas analyzer. Set it to 1.0 CO at idle. You should pass then. Also make sure the engine fully warm when testing. After you pass set the AFM back to 13.9-14.1 =1.40 CO. this adjustment is done just to the screw on the AFM. Turn screw to CW to richen and CCW TO lean idle mixture.
Make sure your timing is correct as well.
I just passed today by doing this, except i have my own AFM meter.
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ivwshane
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| curtis4085 wrote: |
You can run it by a smog shop or any mechanic with a exhaust sniffer/gas analyzer. Set it to 1.0 CO at idle. You should pass then. Also make sure the engine fully warm when testing. After you pass set the AFM back to 13.9-14.1 =1.40 CO. this adjustment is done just to the screw on the AFM. Turn screw to CW to richen and CCW TO lean idle mixture.
Make sure your timing is correct as well.
I just passed today by doing this, except i have my own AFM meter. |
I'll call around and see if anyone has one. I wish these things could be rented:|
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curtis4085
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ivwshane wrote: |
| curtis4085 wrote: |
You can run it by a smog shop or any mechanic with a exhaust sniffer/gas analyzer. Set it to 1.0 CO at idle. You should pass then. Also make sure the engine fully warm when testing. After you pass set the AFM back to 13.9-14.1 =1.40 CO. this adjustment is done just to the screw on the AFM. Turn screw to CW to richen and CCW TO lean idle mixture.
Make sure your timing is correct as well.
I just passed today by doing this, except i have my own AFM meter. |
I'll call around and see if anyone has one. I wish these things could be rented:| |
Any good mechanic has one. The AFM idle adjustment is simple to do but do not let it run lean for to long. Sgkent is the king of emissions so use his wisdom. Look at Sgkent threads on AFM adjustments great reads.
Idle CO per Bently if I recall is .5-1.5 The higher the number the richer your mixture is. But you know that 
And you can rent a LM-1 meter I Believe. Fro
Aircooled.net
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ivwshane
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Joined: May 19, 2011
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Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| curtis4085 wrote: |
| ivwshane wrote: |
| curtis4085 wrote: |
You can run it by a smog shop or any mechanic with a exhaust sniffer/gas analyzer. Set it to 1.0 CO at idle. You should pass then. Also make sure the engine fully warm when testing. After you pass set the AFM back to 13.9-14.1 =1.40 CO. this adjustment is done just to the screw on the AFM. Turn screw to CW to richen and CCW TO lean idle mixture.
Make sure your timing is correct as well.
I just passed today by doing this, except i have my own AFM meter. |
I'll call around and see if anyone has one. I wish these things could be rented:| |
Any good mechanic has one. The AFM idle adjustment is simple to do but do not let it run lean for to long. Sgkent is the king of emissions so use his wisdom. Look at Sgkent threads on AFM adjustments great reads.
Idle CO per Bently if I recall is .5-1.5 The higher the number the richer your mixture is. But you know that
And you can rent a LM-1 meter I Believe. Fro
Aircooled.net |
Thanks! They have an LM2 to rent for $80 bucks. I'm going to see if I can get lucky on ebay first:o
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ivwshane
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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The search continues, aircooled said theirs is not very accurate at idle:(
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timo78
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe this will help. I recall similar readings when I had an intake leak. Too much air and unburned fuel.
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SGKent
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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that is true, the CSV could be leaky or fuel pressure could be high.
I have an LM1. Do you have a cat with a O2 bung on it? When do you have to be smogged by? Colin is usually thru here around July 1 - July 15. I am surprised Justin didn't set it to be sure it passed. Isn't that part of what you paid him for?
Steve
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ivwshane
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Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
that is true, the CSV could be leaky or fuel pressure could be high.
I have an LM1. Do you have a cat with a O2 bung on it? When do you have to be smogged by? Colin is usually thru here around July 1 - July 15. I am surprised Justin didn't set it to be sure it passed. Isn't that part of what you paid him for?
Steve |
He said he doesn't do smog so he didn't have the tools to make sure it passed.
I don't know if my cat has an O2 sensor on it.
Looking at the posted chart the only thing that stands out is that my idle sounds high. But since this is the only bus I've used or been around I am basing that on what my bus has sounded like before (a sewing machine on a medium setting). It sounds like a sewing machine on high.
I'm afraid to mess with settings because I just got it back from the shop and it seems to be running well (except of course for the fact that it won't pass smog).
And the fuel pressure as measured at the shop was 34-36psi.
I plan on taking two camping trips next month so waiting to July would mess that up.
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ivwshane
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Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
that is true, the CSV could be leaky or fuel pressure could be high.
I have an LM1. Do you have a cat with a O2 bung on it? When do you have to be smogged by? Colin is usually thru here around July 1 - July 15. I am surprised Justin didn't set it to be sure it passed. Isn't that part of what you paid him for?
Steve |
Is this the bung you are talking about? If it is it doesn't look like it will come off very easily.
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curtis4085
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:27 am Post subject: |
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That's ugly bung. Is there a bung on the CAT engine side near flange. Sometimes you have to feel for it as its on the top.
If You cannot get your bung off or locate one precat You can set your emmisions CO at idle to 1.0 measuring threw end of tail pipe. But big but,,, make sure to get a bung installed and set it properly before any trips!! You do not want to run hot.
My new dialed in engine measures 1.0CO at tail pipe at idle and precarious that translated into 14.1 mixture. Perfect for idle. Slightly rich.
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SGKent
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:52 am Post subject: |
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that is not the bung. I can tell from your cat it is not the style that has a bung. Unfortunately I do not have the tailpipe clamp for my LM-1. I use a O2 port in the catalytic. Example below. It is a port with threads for a O2 sensor. A plug goes in it the rest of the time.
I believe that Tognotti's has the Innovate bung and plug that an exhaust shop can weld in. It needs to be in a location it can be accessed and that a sender will fit into. Regardless of which method you use, the exhaust has to be air tight and no leaks.
O2 bung and plug
Emico Cat
Innovate also makes a exhaust pickup but they are like $85 so that is why I have not bought one when I already have the O2 sensor in my cat. Colin has one.
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Ian
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Call around and find someone with a "sniffer". Ask what they want ie., $20, beer, pot, soda, pizza, packasmokes, whatever it may be, and reset your adjustment on the AFM.
Alternatively, if the emissions place will "test you for free again since you failed the first time" you could screw that little screw in a little bit and go test again, see if it made a difference.
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SGKent
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: |
Call around and find someone with a "sniffer". Ask what they want ie., $20, beer, pot, soda, pizza, packasmokes, whatever it may be, and reset your adjustment on the AFM.
Alternatively, if the emissions place will "test you for free again since you failed the first time" you could screw that little screw in a little bit and go test again, see if it made a difference. |
Ian I differ with you on this one. No one in Sacramento with a "sniffer" who does it for a living is going to swap a pack of beer for an hour of work. They are going to want a minimum of $80 to $150 to tune things. Second, there is no one in Sacramento who tunes Bosch AFM's except other late bus owners. Third, the best way to screw up the AFM is to start just tweaking it to see what happens.
I will be glad to help him but he has to have a spot I can place the O2 sensor and a power source (12V cigarette lighter plug in) that I can use OR the clamp and the power source. If he starts monkeying with it then I lose the baseline he already has and I'll not waste further time on this.
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ivwshane
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Ian wrote: |
Call around and find someone with a "sniffer". Ask what they want ie., $20, beer, pot, soda, pizza, packasmokes, whatever it may be, and reset your adjustment on the AFM.
Alternatively, if the emissions place will "test you for free again since you failed the first time" you could screw that little screw in a little bit and go test again, see if it made a difference. |
Ian I differ with you on this one. No one in Sacramento with a "sniffer" who does it for a living is going to swap a pack of beer for an hour of work. They are going to want a minimum of $80 to $150 to tune things. Second, there is no one in Sacramento who tunes Bosch AFM's except other late bus owners. Third, the best way to screw up the AFM is to start just tweaking it to see what happens.
I will be glad to help him but he has to have a spot I can place the O2 sensor and a power source (12V cigarette lighter plug in) that I can use OR the clamp and the power source. If he starts monkeying with it then I lose the baseline he already has and I'll not waste further time on this. |
So at this point in time would you say the best option is to buy a new cat (the emico 335057 that you have talked about before) and have you help me tune it?
If I can get the cat for $140, that's cheaper than buying a low end gas analyzer and it's a little more than a shop with an anylyzer might charge.
You said you got your cat directly from EMICO, how long did it take to ship to you?
Also if I get the new cat what else will I need? Gasgets? Bung cap?
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SGKent
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ivwshane wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| Ian wrote: |
Call around and find someone with a "sniffer". Ask what they want ie., $20, beer, pot, soda, pizza, packasmokes, whatever it may be, and reset your adjustment on the AFM.
Alternatively, if the emissions place will "test you for free again since you failed the first time" you could screw that little screw in a little bit and go test again, see if it made a difference. |
Ian I differ with you on this one. No one in Sacramento with a "sniffer" who does it for a living is going to swap a pack of beer for an hour of work. They are going to want a minimum of $80 to $150 to tune things. Second, there is no one in Sacramento who tunes Bosch AFM's except other late bus owners. Third, the best way to screw up the AFM is to start just tweaking it to see what happens.
I will be glad to help him but he has to have a spot I can place the O2 sensor and a power source (12V cigarette lighter plug in) that I can use OR the clamp and the power source. If he starts monkeying with it then I lose the baseline he already has and I'll not waste further time on this. |
So at this point in time would you say the best option is to buy a new cat (the emico 335057 that you have talked about before) and have you help me tune it?
If I can get the cat for $140, that's cheaper than buying a low end gas analyzer and it's a little more than a shop with an anylyzer might charge.
You said you got your cat directly from EMICO, how long did it take to ship to you?
Also if I get the new cat what else will I need? Gasgets? Bung cap? |
I paid around $200+ as I recall for the cat. You want to call EMICO directly and there is a thread somewhere here with the phone and model number. You may want to look at a stock 1975 - 1978 exhaust first to be sure you don't have some modified type like later heads and exhaust etc.
| Quote: |
| sgkent -> Emico cost me about $200 shipped I think for a brand new cat for my 1977. You want Jay or Anna [email protected] It was under $150 plus shipping. If you have a late 1976 thru 1978 it is model 335057 which is California CARB II compliant. |
This is what my exhaust looks like
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ivwshane
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah mine looks similar to yours, albeit not as pretty:(
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SGKent
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I can't see the junction of your cat and the connector. It looks kinda like the cat was welded to it. You may find that it is a lot of work to redo all those pieces once you get them apart. Here is what the flange should look like on both ends of the cat.
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