Vanagon vs Toyota van

[VWOCD]

Go to Vancouver (BC) Craigslist, type in Hiace and see the many results for import Toyota vans. I am totally intrigued at this point. Diesel, 4 wheel drive, and seemingly comparable set up to the Westy.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/ctd/1934977134.html


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[j_dirge]

[WestyBob]

[Jon_slider]

> If this was 1985 and you were in the market for a new kid hauler,

If you had bought a Westy, you would be the COOL Dad.

And even if you buy a Westy today, your kids will Know you're cool.

There is no ToyWesty, the HiAces and Delicas in Canada have the steering wheel on the wrong side, uncle sam wont let you have one, and again, they wont make you cool, like a Westy will..

Your friend sent you on a wild goose chase, now get back on track and buy a Westy, they really Are cool.

[offroad.]

http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/


bet they wish they had a westy.........

[mblotz]

[kamzcab86]

[andy syncro-nutz]

[blakeck2]

[VWOCD]

[reluctantartist]

The van in the picture is from the 90's you need to compare that to a eurovan to be fair. One thing I have noticed about the toyota vans is there really is not much of a following for them when compared to vw vans just compare how many websites there are for any other maker and then look at vw. They also have a much lower resale value than the VW's. VW's do seem to have a strong cult following in general.
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1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[dredward]

[PicklePickle]

I have both. They are both fantastic vehicles for different reasons. Here's the unbiased skinny:

The Vanagon

The Vanagon was overtly designed after the (then) foreign only Toyota HiAce of the 1970's. For reference, here are some photos of the 67+ Toyota HiAce:

Seeing the upcoming "mini van" craze of the 1980's as other motor companies did, Toyota planned to launch their Van in the U.S. on a larger scale as their success in the car market gave them financial momentum to build their brand while VW sought to import their Vanagon to the U.S. and market it aggressively in an effort to stave off any chance of a takeover of the Van market by Toyota or any other motor company in the 1980's.

The first three years of the Vanagon were a strange cross hybrid between the 68+ Type 2 and the new Vanagon frame. It carried a 70BHP 2.0 air-cooled VW flat four engine which was exchanged only a few years later in 1984 for poorly adapted water-cooled conversions of the same basic engine known as the Wasserboxer. In 1986, the water-cooled engine design was stabilized enough to make the vehicle reasonably dependable and by the late eighties and early nineties, the engine/frame platform were quite reliable due to ongoing improvements.

The Vanagon makes an awesome cruiser, who's motor hum can almost lull you to sleep going down the road. It has a little more space and feels very stable going down the road. Support for the Vanagon is unparalleled (just look at the number of forum posts in the Vanagon forum on thesamba.com). Parts are aplenty in most cases except for some rare parts and getting them is in the worst case a couple days away when getting them from your favorite online parts vendor or thesamba friends.

Best of all, the Vanagon is recognized and humbly respected worldwide as having (even through it's troubled years) served much of the world very well for many years. It's close relation to it's elder, the Type 2 makes it loveable to hippies and the older folks who recall fond memories when they look inside a Camper model interior. Parking lot stories and new friends abound when you drive a Vanagon. However, beware the above average maintenance, noise, lack of A/C (and possibly heat depending on your rig condition!) which may be cons to you depending on what you are looking for when choosing the Vanagon.

The Van Wagon

No one seems to know actually whether the name Van Wagon was chosen after Toyota learned of the Vanagon name or whether it was the other way around, but there is no debate over whether the two were closely named intentionally as Toyota and VW planned to battle for the U.S. van market. Toyota launched the new MasterAce as the Van Wagon in the U.S. with little fanfare and it never really made it as a smash hit. Toyota would not achieve much of any measurable U.S. Van share until some 20 years following the Van Wagon release with the entry of their Toyota Sienna Van.

The Van Wagon is like a space shuttle. It is quiet, super comfortably smooth, fast, and ultra reliable. It houses not one, but two very reliable air conditioning units, that cool the interior rapidly and efficiently without over taxing the motor (only Toyota could figure that out). It shifts like chilled butter and accelerates rapidly for a little Van. It is powered by a high torque 102HP 2.2L 4Y-E water cooled engine situated between the front seats thats hooked to RWD tread. It can go anywhere a Vanagon can, except for VW shows. The Van Wagon has it's fans, but it won't cause a hippie to faint with overwhelming flashbacks to their Bus/Camper days.

Lack of fan base, support and interior and body parts are the cons for the Toyota Van Wagon. Rebuilding the interior consists of hunting down the least damaged old peices you can find, which is difficult to do since they are rare and virtually unsupported by any vendor. Converserly, engine and drive-train maintenance are much simpler given their cross part availability with Celica's, Supras, Corollas, etc.

If you want a very reliable, smooth, comfortable cruiser that is generally safe to pack your family into for highway travel and yet a blast to have a little fun with too, you cannot beat the Toyota Van Wagon.

So, it's more a matter of what you're going for than which is "better." I love them all. I couldn't imagine taking the Toyota Van Wagon out camping in the woods, but then I can't imagine taking the family in the Vanagon on a blazing hot South Louisiana summer day to see family 8 hours away just for the weekend. They both serve their purposes and have their place.

I went out and shot the video to give you an upclose look at both:


Link

_________________
"Aircooled VWs are like roaches in that if you let one in, they'll soon be nesting all around you in great numbers."
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1970 Yellow Beetle aka "Melbourne"

[kamzcab86]

[randywebb]

what is the Gnd. Clearance on the Toyota VanWagon?
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[PicklePickle]

If you define ground clearance as the distance from the ground to the very lowest protrusion from the bottom of the van, the Toyota is about 8" and the Vanagon is about 10" give or take in both scenarios depending on suspension wear, tire inflation and assuming stock tires sizes.

I just went out and measured both.

Oh, and Kam, great analysis. Only exception would be that American and foreign motorcar vendors definitely knew the potential of minivan in the auto market. It was the concept of a kid and cargo hauler that women could feel comfortable driving--an incredible opportunity since such a vehicle did not yet exist. Most vans were mens territory and women were relegated to the station wagon which quickly died after the introduction of the minivan. What ultimately became known as the minivan was car-van or as Dodge put it Caravan. The concept was the same though as it is seen in the early naming conventions, blending Wagon and Van or Car and Van. Either way, it represented a newer, more comfortable and appealing take on existing small vans. In fact--before being essentially ousted--Lee Iacocca had tried to drum up interest at Ford in the concept but they would have nothing to do with it. The Chrysler company did bite though and under his leadership, brought the Caravan to market as a FWD smooth cruiser with cupholders for the first time--an feature he has since lamented since it has been attributed to so many accidents.

By going FWD, Chrysler under it's Dodge brand made the risky decision to ultimately put the woman first and put the utilitarian aspect second--and they won--BIG.

However, did they create an icon? Not really, just an evolution of the motorcar. I have not really seen an icon in the motorcar world for many many years to be honest.
_________________
"Aircooled VWs are like roaches in that if you let one in, they'll soon be nesting all around you in great numbers."
-------------------------------------------------
1970 Yellow Beetle aka "Melbourne"

[DAIZEE]

That was a good video and comparison text. Thanks. I also watched one of the off road videos. Seemingly everyone has their own little niche and its all about personal choice, oh and $$$, interests, life style, etc....
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[randywebb]

thx for all the info!

what we really want, of course, is a reasonably noise free ride to where we are going to park our nice camper

the best solution is to have someone drive the Vanagon there and then drive to meet them in your sports car
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1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[DAIZEE]

OR fly yourself in a little wee airplane cause its all loaded in the van
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[GeorgeL]