'78 Westfalia with seized engine... Advice?

[tjk566]

Hey I bought my first VW, a 78' Westfalia last year in a town about 70 miles south of mine (Eugene). When I was driving it up the freeway, it overheated and the engine seized. I had it towed to my house but it has been sitting on the street since then. I have wanted to replace the engine for a while but haven't really had the funds or the knowledge to do so. The engine that was in it was actually a 1600 dual port, which I think is i bug engine? And the mechanic who worked on the bus kinda jerry-rigged it so it would work (I don't think he did a very good job). Anyways, I am trying to decide what to do with it... This is my first VW and I don't really have much knowledge about them. So I am not sure if it is fuel injected or carbureted. So I am considering selling it but I'm not sure how much I could even get. Or I could hold off and try to find an engine for it, but I don't know what engine to look for (a 1600 dual port again, or the original bus engine). I would like to know how much that would cost though.... Sorry this is so long but basically, I would like to know how much this is worth and how much it would cost to get it running. Thanks a ton

[airkooledchris]

how much do you love it?

put very simply, your looking at probably around $4500+ to get your bus up and running again minimum, unless you do all the work and from the sounds of it, I don't think that's the best option given the amount of work needed.

is it in really good condition other than the completely hacked engine area?

if it's pristine and original/stock, it could be worth a few grand even without the motor working.

otherwise, your looking at getting maybe $1k out of it, if your lucky, depending on the condition.

[tjk566]

I love it a lot but I don't know about $4500 worth. It is in fair condition, not great though. The previous owner painted flowers and stuff all over the body and it looks like the front left side has been in an accident and then sort of shoddily repaired

[airkooledchris]

there's no way to sugar coat it, it isn't a good outcome.

you either cut your losses and get a vehicle that you don't have to work on, or you decide to go all in and pay what it takes to get it back on the road and then take very good care of it - because you will have made a significant investment.

on the plus side, you'll have a well built and installed motor to get you where you need to go, so you can enjoy this awesome vehicle.

it would be cheaper to buy one already running, but you have that chance of it's motor failing down the road - where your own bus you have a history for already.

if your up for a gamble, you can get a budget rebuild and 'hope for the best' - lots of people have trouble with them, but a number of them are fine to - as long as you know you went the cheap route and you baby it the best you can.

[busdaddy]

What are your plans/dreams for this bus TJ?, see the world with epic multistate road trips? or around town and the odd 50-100 mile camping trip?
Or are you just sick of it and want it gone?
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[tjk566]

Well my dream when I bought it was to do a bunch of long, epic road trips, like see the world, you know? And I would like to keep it but I'm a little strapped for cash right now

[RatCamper]

See these?:

Both pop tops. The VW can sleep two adults and two kids technically. Three kids if I did one of those front hammock setups.

The caravan can sleep 5 in a real pinch. 4 in a reasonable level of comfort.

Personally I'd rather be driving the VW. A caravan is a PITA to set up, hitch up and drag around. It's awful to maneuver, hard to take through towns, and really bumps up fuel costs. I don't recall precisely but I think the caravan cost us in the region of $6k last year.

A camper can be driven anywhere a normal passenger car can, and a lot of places they can't. Fuel economy isn't bad. There is no setup required to pull over for the night etc.

I have done an awful lot of travelling in the VW as a daily driver. Camped in it on long trips, and lived in it briefly while making a house livable. I didn't mind it at all.

I constantly have to find ways to dodge using the caravan. All the fiddling around is irritating, and pulling it is slow and mentally exhausting. It too has been used to live in briefly while moving house at both the old and new house. We ended up buying a few small odds and ends from a local charity store, and camping in the house, just using the caravan for its fridge.

You can't beat a VW camper for convenience of camping and relaxed cruising.
My camper is pretty much gutted but I still prefer it.
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Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.

[78Kombi]

[drober23]

We really don't know much about the condition of your bus, other than that the engine was seized.

Your '78 bus probably the original 6-rib trans in it, which is geared taller than what the 1600 engine can really handle. Unless the 1600 is in really good shape, driving it fast with that tranny will overwork it.

So, if you go with another 1600, know that you are underpowered for your transmission. That said, the 1600 is a LOT less expensive than the 2.0 L type IV engine that came in the bus.

The real question is what is the condition of the rest of the bus? Was the 1600 engine sealed correctly (tin and foam seal, seals around spark plug holes, etc...)? Does it roll and stop as it should? Emergency brake? Lights?

You can drop another 1600 engine in it and roll for quite some time if you take it easy. IF the other mechanicals are ok. It will get very expensive in a hurry if you can't do the work yourself.

From what I read, if I were you I would shop for a running 1600 engine with good compression all the way around. Install it, and make sure it is sealed very well. Then I would roll it while saving up the cash for the proper engine sometime down the road.

Good luck to you!
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DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe, and some others...
(more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

[SGKent]

Look at your budget and decide how much you can afford to put into this bus. Let us know and maybe we can advise you better on what to expect. Posting something like "as little as possible for the best I can find" won't help us. Come up with a $$ figure.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[iratehippie]

Your in Eugene, and there's a pretty good vw interest around town. Look for "parked/back yard" vws and see if you can "befriend" some of the vw people. Maybe someone has a spare engine or wrenches and could be of help. Its not that hard to pull the engine, and thats a good place to start "learnin vw". If it was me, I would look for the Type IV/original, but the other, Type I, can be easier to come by. I got a type IV engine(complete) outta Portland, $250, but I just bought it for parts=one new head/new flywheel/clutch assy. and other stuff. Didn't hear it run and it wasn't guaranteed to run. I'm also one of the low budget, do your own work crowd.

[Desertbusman]

Read this for a reality check.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=431630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
It will help you decide if you want to go on with it or quit now.

Next topic- If you continue with it do some study on maintaining and operating a bus. Get the owners manual and the service manual. If you go again with a T-1 engine also get the owners manual for a early T-1 bus. From what you say, the engine died because of overheating. It might have been a bad engine or a bad installation. But the driver is the one who keeps driving it until it destructs. Learn how to always be monitoring it so that you don't keep driving it if it is running too hot. A new engine will also fry if something isn't right.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[Hoody]

I would climb underneath and take a long hard look at the condition of underside of the bus, front beam, sliding door channel,rear trailing arm mounts.If this bust spent it's life where you live you may have a gem.If it's rotten underneath part it out and find another one that's not hacked up and running.You have to assess how much free time you have.You are going to have to learn a lot about your rig.Their are very few mechanics left who specialize in type 4 engines let alone ones that will even look at them.Good luck!

[82-T/A]

I don't think it should be $4,500. I respect your guys opinions, but that seems excessive to get a Bus up and running.

I bought a VW Bus that didn't run for $1,200. What it DID have was a rebuilt GEX motor (that I ended up having to replace everything on), a rebuilt transmission, and a new paint job.

It was missing EVERYTHING else.

This is how I got it: http://www.pontiacperformance.net/CarImages/73_VWBUS/73VW_Day1_3_lrg.JPG

This picture does not even really tell the whole story. It's missing ALL of the windows except one rear drivers side 4/5th window. It was missing EVERYTHING else. No windows, no seats, no interior, the wiring was SHOT, half the gauges were missing, the dash had holes in it like swiss cheese. it had no headlights, no turn signals, no brake lights, NOTHING! Even the windshield was cracked!


Since then, I've dumped about $1,500 into it (being totally honest here).

That includes tons of parts from the junkyard (there were a few in the yard). What I couldn't get from the junkyard, I got from Busted Bus. I also bought a ton of parts from West Coast Metric (is that the name?) and from the Bus Depot.

This includes all new lifters (the German Mahle ones? or... no... whatever ones are the best ones that Bus Depot sells, that's what I got). I got a new battery, I got an ENTIRE main harness for a 72 VW Bus from Bus Boys and adapted it to fit my 73 VW Bus (I think it was 1 wire less).
I re-wired the entire dash since nothing worked (had to buy schematics off eBay). New hub caps, seats, seat upholstery, door panels, interior paint, rebuilt gauges, new headlights, rings, buckets, dash, blah blah blah... and more blah.

When all is said and done, I basically restored my entire VW Bus for $1,500, and bought it for $1,200. Sure, I shopped around, but I didn't go nuts.

Now, the short block of my engine was basically still good (even though it was from GEX). So that saved me about $2,000 bucks I otherwise would have had to spend.

Anwyay, I don't know if anything has changed since ~2004 really... but $4,500 dollars, I think, could basically completely restore your 78 VW Bus with a rebuilt engine.

If not, the only thing you really need to do is rebuild your motor. You could maybe even get a used one from Busted Bus. I think it's owned by a guy named Chris. I used to talk with him a lot and he has a LOT of stuff for sale.


To be quite honest, it's REALLY not a complicated vehicle to work on. Even if yours is fuel injected, I mean... there's practically nothing to these cars. I know that when aliens come down and blast us with EMP rays, I'll still be able to drive around my carbureted VW Bus. (Ok, I'm kidding about that one, not that crazy).

These things are a lot of fun to work on, and if I'm honest, they're only increasing in value. I know you see a lot of real turds out there. But I bought mind for $1,200... dumped $1,500 into it, and could probably sell it for $6,500... or more... you be the judge:

http://www.pontiacperformance.net/CarImages/73_VWBUS/73VW_Day5_1_lrg.JPG


EDIT: Just wanted to add... if you guys think restoring a VW Bus is expensive... try restoring a Porsche. I bought a 1984 Porsche 944, dropped $4,500 into it, and it was only worth $2,000 when I was done with it. When my daughter was born, I freaked out because I had 9 cars and a golf cart, so I sold my 84 Porsche 944 that I had completely restored from the ground up (for $2,018), sold my 1981 Pontiac TransAm WS6, sold my 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, sold my 1974 VW 412 Wagon, traded in my 2006 Pontiac Solstice for a paid-for 2002 Ford Explorer Sport w/ 34k miles, traded in my wife's 2004 VW Beetle Convertible and bought a 1 year old 2008 Jeep Patriot for my wife (only had 14k miles on it). Anyway, I'm rambling... but yeah... I kept my Bus. heheh...
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Todd,
(Fun cars)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX-P74
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[Mal evolent]

what I'm not seeing is

"I don't know much but I'm willing to learn"

or

"I signed up for an auto mechanics course at a junior college so I have access to tools and a shop"

haven't learned this stuff yet, no evidence of a burn to learn. it isn't going to fix itself, it's going to require a lot of time and money and knowledge. you either get that knowledge yourself or pay for it.

you need that knowledge before you buy, now, and down the road. VWs are not four wheeled appliances that just run when you feed them power. there should be an entrance exam to the VW world

I believe OP will be happier in the long run selling this VW and buying a reliable expendable something else.
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73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats

Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index

[wyomingriviera]

I had the pleasure of breaking down in Eugene a few years ago. Is the No Name Garage still kicking? If so, those guys should be able to give you an honest opinion on what yer bus needs, and what it might cost.

Lucky for you, Oregon seems to be aircooled heaven, with Eugene right in the middle of that constellation.

Head over to the library, check out the Muir Idiot guide, and see if this shit interests you.
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[Desertbusman]