Replacing Old Dash Ceramic Fuse Panel with more modern one

[DAIZEE]

I did 6 searches and looked at every title and looked at many of the threads but can't find info I'd like

I have to rewire front. Gilles at Performance Diesel said it is a must and told me how bad it is. I travel with a fire extinquisher on my right side. I have no sense of smell so I'd never know there was burning until I see smoke or fire. He says the old fuse panel metal ground plate is just about disintegrated by rust. Funny little to no rust on the body.

I've bought a used fuse panel with ground plate and it looks good BUT I'd like to put a newer safer fuse box that does NOT use ceramics. There is a small fuse box in the engine compartment but I need something bigger. Does anyone know where these can be had?

Also is it feasible to have 1 service on 1 fuse, i.e. separate fuses for separate services? That's what I'd like to do.

I figure this is a winter project and I do plan on using marking tabs. I've done 12V wiring on boats and of course I will only do 1 wire at a time.

Sources, advice please. ps the fuse listing in my owners manual is so inaccurate it is meaningless. Thanks
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[DAIZEE]

Has anyone updated/upgraded any motor vehicle fuse panels?
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Vango Conversions]

My other car is a 1965 Mustang and I know of several people who have changed out their fuse panels or their entire wiring harness. There is a company called painless wiring and they make universal fuse panels as well as complete wiring harnesses for lots of different cars, you may want to check with them. Also, boat supply places sell universal fuse panels.

[DAIZEE]

TY
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[connorsvw2]

Cant't help with the original post question, but a rusty fuse panel would make me wonder where the water leak is. I would suspect rust/perforation under windshield gasket.

My old VW Rabbit leaked water at the grommet where the antenna came through the inner fender into passenger compartment, wet the fuse panel and led to all kinds of electrical gremlins.

YMMV.

[PDXWesty]

I would buy a newer vanagon panel and start your wiring from there. You could configure it however you wanted sinc you are rewiring. There are several for sale in the classifieds: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search

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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[psych-illogical]

[DAIZEE]

yep I'm aware it could indicate a leak. I've seen no other indication (could be there) and I think it is the aeria/antennael hole. The van sat outside for many years and I don' think there has been any attention to the front wiring system. I have bought some brushes to try to clean it up some for the interim BUT the ground plate has to be changed therefore the whole area will be changed.

I don't really see anything wrong, nor dangerous about the ceramics either, after all I just bought a better one and have many many many fuses, I just personally prefer the more modern type and if I'm going to be doing the rewiring, then that is an opportunity to change it. I feel safer and as I have no sense of smell, I always attempt to alleviate any potential problems.

Another question on this rewiring: If I put 1 function or like functions on a fuse, will I still need to use harnesses? You might find that an oversimplified question but if I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking.

I do appreciate all input/ideas/info. Thanks for the link to classifieds.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[ragnarhairybreeks]

if you buy a newer panel, ie late 85, 86 and newer, then I'd advise following as much as possible the wiring diagrams in the bentley, well infact you have to follow it, the panel is "wired" internally (unlike the obvious wire connections between fuse and relay in the old panel). You need the diagrams to know the pinouts etc.

If you do use the newer, you'll need a molex terminal connection removal tool (2 sizes), new molex connectors (old style used spade connectors), and a very good crimper.

google molex and molex tool to see what I mean, or wade throug my blog in my sig to see my home made molex tools.

I fully agree with you about liking the newer style panel, but jeez, it is going to be a bit of work rewiring, tedious, and that's why I recommend doing it according to bentley.

good luck

alistair
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'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com

[ProvoCyclist]

Ive thought about building a fuse panel using circuit breakers, aircraft style. I havent heard the pros/cons of doing it this way. Anyone want to shoot holes in my idea?
_________________
Clark
Current: 1986 Tintop GL 2wd, stock 2.1L, manual trans, Savanna Beige Metallic LH1V.
Past: 1985 Sunroof GL, 2wd, Subaru 3.3L, manual trans, resprayed to Diamond Silver L97A

[Captain Pike]

Go with a stock replacement,you have enough"mods" on this Vanagon.Your inviting trouble,shitting cash and confounding anyone who may need to work on it.
Fix what is broken,don't reinvent the wheel.
Get a new rad,place an ad for a Diesel filler neck. 5 # invested and still not reliable????
I have an Uncle in the Turkish mob who is decended from royalty. If you deposit $2000 in my bank account I can pay you $2.000.000
WHEN YOU FIX THIS VANAGON
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers....

[thatvwbusguy]

I would definitely stick with the stock fuse setup. The original fuse block worked for 20+ years without any issues. I would say that is a pretty good track record for any part. The GBC ceramic style (most are thermal plastic now) fuses are still widely available and cheap.

To convert to any other style of fuse box you will basically be writing a custom wiring manual for your van. This is fine as long as you take immaculate notes and insure that you give the wiring diagram to any mechanic that is working on your van in the future.

For me, the simple and obvious layout of the early Vanagon fuse block is a great design. It is increasingly rare to find a vehicle where you can actually see and access the wiring on both sides (line and load) of the fuse block. On the 86+ fuse block there is a virtual maze of connections inside the black casing that are difficult to trace and terminate in multi-pin connectors that require special tools to service.

If I was setting out to do this job, I would buy a decent quality OEM style open-barrel crimper and a bunch of good 1/4" female disconnect terminals to replace any connectors that appear to be damaged or oxidized. You should be able to find everything you need at www.waytekwire.com. I have purchased a lot of materials from them in the past and have always gotten great service. If you need any help with the proper parts to order let me know.

One modifcation that I would consider making to any Vanagon would be the addition of an auxiliary fuse panel to house all of the connections for the optional accessories that we add to our vans. Blue Sea Systems makes several high quality auxiliary fuse panels. They are available at most marine dealers and are quite reasonably priced compared to some of the other brands I have come accross.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[germansupplyscott]

ditto on keeping it original. unless you are restoring the vehicle, in other words stripping it completely apart and have a blank sheet on which to work, converting the fuse panel will be a huge pain and will probably make matters worse. if your existing panel is poor, replace it with a good one, repair any of the bad wires and fix the water leak.

when doing this sort of repair it's essential to use the original type of crimped terminals, not hardware-store terminals. there's nothing worse electrically than a whole whack of those yellow, red and blue plastic covered terminals, they are a massive downgrade from the original crimps, plus many of the wires have terminals with locking tabs to fasten into the fuse panel.

i've swapped fuse panels on bay buses quite a few times and it isn't too hard as long as you're patient and careful. it can help to have a donor replacement panel that has all or most of the wires still attached to it, like a 8-inch pigtail on all the wires. if the panel is cut from a parts vehicle this is often the case and the extra wires are very useful for reference and making repairs to the original harness.
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SL

[RGS Paul]

I agree keeping it stock might be easiest. But if you want a middle ground you could use a fuse block to replace the stock one with the newer fuse style while not replacing the entire wiring harness. Look here, Hella makes some nice ones that should work.

http://www.rallylights.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=54

This would allow you to pull what you have out, inspect, repair, and modify as necessary, improve your connections to the fuses, and then reinstall with a nearly stock setup. I would recommend pulling the dash though so you can really inspect the entire loom and have enough room to work around things.

Good luck.

Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman

[DAIZEE]

Thanks for the links, just looked at Bentley Diagrams, not something I like at all. Seems to me that there was a thread in here about a dash fire and the (he might have been an aeronomic engineer) giving detailsed list of actual connections. There was a discussion there about an incorrect Bentley. I can't find that thread. My Bentley goes to 1987. The wiring is totally screwed up, its needs to be done, I can't afford $1500 to $2000 to get it done.

I don't mind opinions and input but I don't like -ve comments. This is supposed to be a helpful place, I've said it before help me or don't bother me.

I will most likely go with a 90's fuse panel with harnesses and hopefully relays. I don't know yet. Something needs to be done, presently not working or no rhyme or reason to what does or doesn't work.

So I'll thank you all, I've had some emails and pmails and good advice on this thread. I'm appreciative of the +ve comments, advice, info.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[RCB]

What does ...-ve mean ? Is this a new Vanagon lingo thing

[DAIZEE]

sorry, thought +ve and -ve were self explanatory.

Thanks for all your input, I've had some PMs one particularly explained clearly and simply the pro and cons of all my options. My decision is that I'm doing nothing right now. Your thoughts, ideas, opinions were appreciated.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Fritz]

Am currently in the process of replacing my original fuse panel with a modern one and running all new wiring behind the dash. The work is on hold due to being laid off. I now have the time but not the money. Bummer.

The wiring in my 85 Westy is a mess. During the process so far I have learned that the Bentley wiring diagrams are very good. Am rewiring it per the schematics but I'm changing the routing to make it neater. Already have a wiring identification system figured out as cannot locate all the different color wires needed. So I'm using all white wires for power, brown for ground. Before you say it is a bad idea we use only white wire on aircraft and they have a lot more wiring than the Vanagon. Terminal ends are crimped, soldered and covered with heat shrink.

Have been looking into using a circuit breaker panel vs. the modern blade fuses. Going to the marine supply house next week to check out some circuit breaker panels that might work. Can't buy but can look and be ready when work comes.

There is NO plug and play system out there and I personally wasn't happy with the options available with Painless Wiring although they do have good products. To do this job takes a lot of time- much more time than money. Not for the faint of heart either.

[DAIZEE]

Thanks Fritz. Bummer about your job. Here's hoping for you.

Owning a Vanagon is not for the faint of heart
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Ahwahnee]