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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: 1970 Royal Red - Engine Rebuild and Camper Mods |
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As some of you may recall, I bought a '70 Squareback a month ago and the engine blew up only 30min into the return home.
I am sure that I'll have plenty of questions for you guys along the way. And many thanks to those who have helped so far!
A bit of the back story on the car...
The original owner drove it infrequently from 1970 until 1983. It was placed in storage in 1984 with only 53,000 miles on the odometer. In 2009 the car was rediscovered and sold to a neighbor who bought it for his wife.
While in storage it had become the home to many mice - who thankfully did not eat any wiring, but they made a giant nest in the engine bay. A mechanic removed much of the foreign material, but unfortunately quite a bit remained. Unbeknownst to anyone, the nesting material was still impacted deep in the cooling fins and the thermostat hinges were rusted shut - a recipe for disaster.
Once finally back on the road, it was only driven for short Sunday drives and showed no problems. The wife however wasn't happy with the lack of modern amenities (no A/C) and the car was listed for sale. I found the ad on the Samba, took a visit, and bought it with the hopes of driving it on the 5 hour trip back home. Upon inspection everything looked normal and the car drove fine as well. There was no indication that she could not make the journey.
...but after 30 minutes of highway driving, the there was a sudden loss of power and black smoke coming from the exhaust. I took the nearest exit but the damage had been done.
DAY 1:
On the trailer.
Raising the rear to remove the engine.
...and she is out!
DAY 2:
Got the engine mounted to a stand. As luck would have it, my father (who raced Formula Vee in the 70s) still had a stand he used for rebuilds.
Problem #1 - The thermostat lever was heavily rusted, thus not allowing the cooling flaps to open. (*sorry for poor photo)
Problem #2 - Melted #4 Piston. Was this from over heating or a FI malfunction? Not sure yet.
I took stock of some needed items and ordered them through eVWParts, ISP West, and Russ W.
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2175
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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this is prolly more speculation on my part... #3 looks like its in good shape considering the abuse , but #4 looks like a way lean condition..... might want to test the injector that was on number 4 and see if it opens fully, or is clogged .... just seems to me if any cylinder was going to melt under a non cooling issue it would be #3 first.... of course i could be completely wrong here... if thats the case, forget you ever read this....
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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That piston looks like a detonation failure. Timing too far advanced.
Saw that many times at the dealer.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2175
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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disregard my earlier post lol.... sheesh im gettin bad at this
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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thanks.
I was worried that there may have been multiple problems going on.
The head with the dirty chamber is also from the #4.
I tested the injectors with a 9v and they all 'clicked'. Maybe I should try and soak them too.
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Euronut
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2010
Posts: 146
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Great White North
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Can't add anything to the engine problem, but I would like to say WOW! That floor and what I can see of the repair area is incredible. The floor looks white and polished. I wish you all the best with the rebuild. |
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Euronut wrote: |
| Can't add anything to the engine problem, but I would like to say WOW! That floor and what I can see of the repair area is incredible. The floor looks white and polished. I wish you all the best with the rebuild. |
thanks. It is a light grey Epoxy flooring and it makes cleaning up oil spills really easy. I highly recommend it. The only problem is that you have to constantly be sweeping to keep it looking that way.
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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DAY 3:
The teardown begins.
Cleaning the heads.
Valve Inspection and Cleaning.
Lapping the Valve Seats.
DAY 4:
Inspecting the crankshaft.
Replacing the bearings.
Cleaning the case in a sink that was converted to circulate Varsol solvent.
Drying out.
DAY 5:
Reassembly begins...
Getting the cylinders on...
I had to stop early because I was missing some seals in my kits.
Btw, I have read that some people don't use valve stem seals in their heads. Is that true? why?
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
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VW at one time put a rubber washer type thingy on the valve stems. What they were trying to do was to push oil into the valve guides, not keep it out. They were trying to help with the vlave guide wear problem.
I was at the VW engine schools when they came out with it.
It did not work.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
VW at one time put a rubber washer type thingy on the valve stems. What they were trying to do was to push oil into the valve guides, not keep it out. They were trying to help with the vlave guide wear problem.
I was at the VW engine schools when they came out with it.
It did not work. |
ok, cool.
curious though, is it advised to stay away because they just do not work?, or do they do more harm than good?
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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They did nothing but break and fall off when they got hot. Then they would wind up in the oil strainer, and panic the person when they found them changing the oil. "WHAT THE HECK IS THIS??"
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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sharkskinman
Lateral Lunatic
Joined: April 26, 2006
Posts: 4045
Location: Deep In My Own Psyche
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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well with the shiny floor
the 30s cars and the plane body
i dont a problem getting your square up and around
_________________
74 Mexi Swamp Thing. 70 square volksrod (Swamp Rat)..65 C10
| Me of Course wrote: |
| Extremity is relative to how far your willing to jump |
| Ward Cleaver wrote: |
| You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear alone on a pink golf ball can take the head off a 90-pound midget at over 300 yards |
PS4 "NKOGNEATO" |
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| sharkskinman wrote: |
well with the shiny floor
the 30s cars and the plane body
i dont a problem getting your square up and around |
well, don't let the shop fool you. It isn't my space or cars.
This is my first engine (car) rebuild ever. I have no idea what is what.
btw, you are local to the NoVa area, no?
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sharkskinman
Lateral Lunatic
Joined: April 26, 2006
Posts: 4045
Location: Deep In My Own Psyche
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: |
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http://monksvivolks.weebly.com/contact-us.html
i lived there for about 4 years
go down to "Monk" at V.I.VOLKS
great friend
great vw guy
tell'm Spoon says "high"
He can definitely give you info and insite
there is a couple semi local for parts
evwparts "joe langois".. in severna park,md
http://www.evwparts.com/
peek performance
http://peekperformance.com/
summit racing
http://www.summitracing.com/
all in MD
_________________
74 Mexi Swamp Thing. 70 square volksrod (Swamp Rat)..65 C10
| Me of Course wrote: |
| Extremity is relative to how far your willing to jump |
| Ward Cleaver wrote: |
| You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear alone on a pink golf ball can take the head off a 90-pound midget at over 300 yards |
PS4 "NKOGNEATO" |
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: |
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DAY 6:
Had some issues figuring out the oil cooler and what seals to use.
Rebuilt the heads and began installing the metal shrouding (repainted with some high temp paint).
Went through a lot of effort to repair and rebuild my air flow vent control. Only to abandon the idea after speaking with ISP west. Apparently they do more harm than good. Do you guys have yours installed?
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| knewknew wrote: |
Went through a lot of effort to repair and rebuild my air flow vent control. Only to abandon the idea after speaking with ISP west. Apparently they do more harm than good. Do you guys have yours installed?
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Bull shit.
That puts me off on ISP, if they are telling people that.
I have never seen a T-3 overheat because they had the thermostat in them. If the thermostat fails, it fails in the open position.
They are there to speed up the warm up period. Get the engine up to operating temperature quick, and then maintain that temperature constant.
Not one of those people at ISP has ever been to ACVW engine school. I have been several times.
I have now lost all respect for ISP, and their knowledge.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Their logic was that the engines typically run hot in the first place, so constant air flow couldn't harm the engine. And the bellows often failed.
I understand your point about if it fails, it would be in the open position. However, mine failed (from rust) while in the shut position and my engine cooked.
Is there any harm if it is open all the time?
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| knewknew wrote: |
Their logic was that the engines typically run hot in the first place, so constant air flow couldn't harm the engine. And the bellows often failed.
I understand your point about if it fails, it would be in the open position. However, mine failed (from rust) while in the shut position and my engine cooked.
Is there any harm if it is open all the time? |
You are missing the safety spring that helps pull the shutters open. Also, your thermostat is bad. Bad ones expand to fill the bracket.
I do not see that many fail.
T-3 engines do NOT run hot. Their fan moves them most air of any of the ACVW cooling fans.
Type 3:
| Quote: |
Cooling .Air cooling by fan on crankshaft
Air quantity . .. . . . .. . .Approx. 580 litres (21 cu. ft.) per second at 3,800 engine rpm.
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Type 1 and 3 was only 550 litres (19.6 cu.ft) per second at 3800 rpm.
(I do not have the T-1 and 2 manuals scanned.)
I think ISP needs to read the factory manuals before they give more bad advice.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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66311
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2006
Posts: 1477
Location: Olive Branch MS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| knewknew wrote: |
Their logic was that the engines typically run hot in the first place, so constant air flow couldn't harm the engine. And the bellows often failed.
I understand your point about if it fails, it would be in the open position. However, mine failed (from rust) while in the shut position and my engine cooked.
Is there any harm if it is open all the time? |
Do you think it may have rusted shut in the closed position because it sat for a long time?
My 70 was rusted shut and the spring was there but it sat for 19 years w/out running. I doubt if it could have rusted shut if it had been run regularly. |
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knewknew
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 217
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 66311 wrote: |
| knewknew wrote: |
Their logic was that the engines typically run hot in the first place, so constant air flow couldn't harm the engine. And the bellows often failed.
I understand your point about if it fails, it would be in the open position. However, mine failed (from rust) while in the shut position and my engine cooked.
Is there any harm if it is open all the time? |
Do you think it may have rusted shut in the closed position because it sat for a long time?
My 70 was rusted shut and the spring was there but it sat for 19 years w/out running. I doubt if it could have rusted shut if it had been run regularly. |
one theory is that it rusted shut, then the bellows went bad later and could not force it open.
Can bellows go bad while just sitting? I have no idea.
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