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Worry about bleeding with Front Heater Core? Bottom post-
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vanagon_fan_again
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Worry about bleeding with Front Heater Core? Bottom post- Reply with quote

So I'm finally getting ready to change Out my front blower motor after a year without. Dash and everything came out great. No problems. Now I get to the heater housing- and the highest screws are tough. Not impossible but just consistently tough and hard to reach- which led to the stripping Sad

I'm certain I'm not the first to run into this problem- if only VW had used a hex head. Confused SO what's the course of action? Considering drilling the head off the left one which is harder to reach, & possibly vice-gripping the right out.

Figures I'd check for a known better solution before destruction Laughing

Ideas?
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Last edited by vanagon_fan_again on Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ragnarhairybreeks
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you mean the phillips headed screws that hold the box to the van? up, a couple can be sticky as they go through the body and are exposed... get rusty.

I have a phillips (or is it posidrive?) bit that fits in 3/8 socket drive, then that is fitted to my longest extension and its a whole lot better than a long shanked screwdriver.

I rap the end of the extension hard a few times before trying to loosen the screw. Even with all that, I broke the head off one screw the last time I took the heater out.

alistair
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#3 phillips and tap the end a few times like ragnarhairybreeks
said.
This little gizmo comes in handy lots of times when working on cars- a worthwhile investment. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947641000P You can put a 1/2" extension between the driver and bit holder if needed.


Last edited by syncrodoka on Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ragnarhairybreeks
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

call me a doofus, but I am guaranteed to whack the skin between my thumb and forefinger every time I use an impact driver Smile

alistair
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vanagonjr
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure, but you might be able to see the ends of 2 of them if you remove the front grill. That would allow you to get some PB blaster on them and let em sit - if my memory is right.

Get Phillips ACR bits - that is the ones with ribs see http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=55392&group_ID=717

I seem to remember that access was tight on two of them. I bought a fairly long bit, but if you cannot find an long ACR, bit, combine with a long power bit holder and then use the bit holder and ratchet wrench as described in previous post.
pic of bit holder: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=80029&group_ID=20275


Can't remember if these were a #2 or #3 size - make sure you have the right size driver.

Yep, replaced mine with stainless! Either hex or Allen heads!
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vanagon_fan_again
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually have a lesser version of the impact driver, but it wasnt considered because of length. Im pretty sure mine wont accept an extension, but I'll be sure to check it out tomorrow.

Wish I would've posted this before trying to get them out with a long handle and a pair of vice-grips for now they are already a good bit stripped.

Thanks for the words gentlemen, But any ideas on what to do about the stripped one if I cannot use one of the prior ideas to get it out?

At worst, I think I could just get a long drill bit, and drill the head off of it.. Perhaps leaving the stud behind as itd just be 1/6 missing- Or maybe cutting a notch into it so that it could possibly be turned out with a flat head or a punch? Still length and getting to it will be an issue Rolling Eyes

Also to the PB idea, I already had the grill off and took a look, then took the fresh air cover off and couldnt find it Crying or Very sad But I'll still probably try to soak it from the inside of the van, maybe that will help somewhat.

Thanks guys.
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ragnarhairybreeks
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drill the bugger. But can you get the bit in there and centered ok?

At least you have the other bolts to size the drill bit, a tad less than the threaded diameter sound good?

Maybe even a left hand twist drill?

good luck

alistair
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reivertribe
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you get some vise-grips on the head of that stripped screw? Not sure what kind of space you have to work with, but worth a try perhaps.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get the PB Blaster in place, I've purchased an 18" length of the red straw you spray through for other projects like this. Then you get the tip up at the screw by feel and if you hold your tongue just right and simply press the top of the can against something to release the spray you get it exactly where you want it. Later when you're going to try to unscrew it, do the same thing with the straw but now you're using brake cleaner to blast oil out of the phillips head (oil in there is the last thing you want now) so the screwdriver tip of choice will grip well.

Sears also sells a Nextec(sp?) cordless right angle impact driver that may fit up there. It's designed to loosen screws and is about $100. I have one and have used it for a couple other dandy seized screws in tight quarters.

DougM
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vanagon_fan_again
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... I got the tough screws out, but not in the way i had hoped. Confused

The head broke off the right one, and I drilled the head off the left one.. Not ideal, but it worked. I'll pick up the pieces before I get it all back together, with a tap or some helicoil if it comes to that...

On to my next problem- Unknown to me, as I naively like to think of my van as a virgin that hasnt had many people working on it despite it being an 89 and me personally only owning it for a year, Someone has already been where I'm at now and had lost all but one of the heater clips and has simply glued it back together. Rolling Eyes

So now I'm having a tough time breaking it open, and I figure it'll be an even tougher time resealing it- So I'm planning on disconnecting the heater core, and getting it to a work table. Originally just going in to change the blower motor so wasnt planning on having to disconnect the core hoses..

My newest question- If I do pull the hoses, Am I going to have an awful headache with bleeding this sucker when i hook it back up? I planned on simply pulling one at a time and draining into a bucket, then draining the core- Advice?

If limited replies, I may repost this on a new thread with a more suiting title..

Thanks Guys-

Oh and also- IdahoDoug; Smart thinking, I only wish I would've asked around here before taking a rushed crack at it. Thanks.
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ragnarhairybreeks
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

use C clamps to pinch off the heater hoses in the cab. A towel on the floor will catch a bit of the coolant coming out of the core when you disconnect the hoses.

Afterwards, no bleeding needed, well none was needed in my 2.1. It purged itself of the air that was introduced by the empty core.


you can make out the blue C clamps in this pic
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


alistair

PS lube the pedal assembly
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go down to sears and get a couple pair of these-
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947051000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
They also have a smaller pair that might do the job as well. I have used them for those heater lines, vacuum lines, coolant hoses and fuel lines quite nicely. They are easy to clamp and they have a blunt rounded edge so they don't cut what you are clamping off and when you want to remove them they pop open easily.
Clamp them near the heater core and have a rag ready for it's contents. Bleeding will be minimal if any once you reinstall the new heater core.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On to my next problem- Unknown to me, as I naively like to think of my van as a virgin that hasnt had many people working on it despite it being an 89 and me personally only owning it for a year, Someone has already been where I'm at now and had lost all but one of the heater clips and has simply glued it back together. Rolling Eyes


The virgin blowers are glued together. You use the clips only after you have opened it. The clips are not cheap and I drill holes and use wire ties to hold the two halves together after opening it. This method was suggested by another samba member and works well.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virgin boxes aren't clipped together and they aren't glued but plastic welded or heat welded though. It must have been opened at one time.
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vanagon_fan_again
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess mine was an untampered box after all. I assumed it was glued or something for how hard it was to get it to break apart then on the bottom I noticed how it had been melted together.. I thought "Boy, this guy really did a number on my heater box" hah..

Anyways with a little more force than I had used prior, I got it to pop apart. So no worries about unhooking the heater core. I'm glad to hear the ziptie method, was considering something like that.

Never seen anything like those hose pinch pliers but boy I'd like to have a couple pairs of em.. I'll look around for some.

Another thing that made me think it had been tampered with was the bigger heater tube coming off the left side to come out for the driverside hand vent had some sort of a sock(?) type material around it, stapled to it. Is this actually original or is it someone elses handy work?

And ragnarhairybreeks- Scary sight with the dash off isn't it? Curious- Whats up with that flooring, is that like a Vanagon specific mat or is that OEM flooring in some models? Either way, know where to get any more and cost? Looks nice.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another thing that made me think it had been tampered with was the bigger heater tube coming off the left side to come out for the driverside hand vent had some sort of a sock(?) type material around it, stapled to it. Is this actually original or is it someone elses handy work?

That is stock. It goes to the dash vent to the left of the instrument cluster.
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vanagon_fan_again
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and another big question- I'm pretty sure my motor is bad as it wont spin freely, but what if my resistor is bad also? Where can I get one and how can I test mine? Thanks
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vanagon_fan_again
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Quote:
Another thing that made me think it had been tampered with was the bigger heater tube coming off the left side to come out for the driverside hand vent had some sort of a sock(?) type material around it, stapled to it. Is this actually original or is it someone elses handy work?

That is stock. It goes to the dash vent to the left of the instrument cluster.


Weird.. Whats the purpose of it?
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Weird.. Whats the purpose of it?


Dunno, but I have seen many of them and they all had the sock on it.
Possibly for abrasion resistance for the heater control cables?
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm pretty sure my motor is bad as it wont spin freely,

Yes, if the squirrel cage cannot be turned easily it is a goner.
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