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CTB Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010 Posts: 152
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: Shocks: Koni + General Install Tips & Review |
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This weekend I installed my new Koni adjustable shocks on my bus. I thought I'd pass along some info/tips/etc that I learned along the way.
My setup: 1984 2wd, Carat springs, 15" SA wheels, 195/70-15 Conti VancoContact 2 tires. Bus weighs 3400 lb - no middle or rear seats.
For both front and rear: The Konis are not gas pressurized, so they do not extend automatically. I recommend turning them upside-down and stroking the shock rod until you notice a large decrease in damping. Then set the damping level to where want and and extend them fully while still upside-down. The twin-tube design means they starve for oil when upside-down, so this enables you to extend them prior to installation, even when set on stiff. If you don't do this, it's a lot more work to extend them when set to stiff. Remember, the adjustment is only on rebound. It's easy to compress them while installing, so it's best to have them too long than too short.
Rear: No rear-specific tips. The rears are very easy and accessible on a Vanagon.
Fronts: The Konis do not have a "blade" on top of the shock rod like the stockers. The have a 5mm female allen head. My 5mm allen did not fit in there once you have the shock on the bus. I recommend going to Lowe's, etc., and getting a set of allen wrenches for $4, use an angle grinder to shorten the 5mm, and then bend it so that the long arm clears the structure of the bus. Here's a picture of what I made, compared to an unaltered 5mm:
I found it difficult to find a combo of tools that would insert into the front of the lower control arm (LCA) without interfering with that support strut that goes to the sta-bar link area. The best combo I found was a breaker bar, a shorty 1/2" extension, and a non-impact 7/8" or 22mm socket:
Impact sockets are thicker and can get stuck in the LCA. Nothing you can't handle with some jiggling around, but it's easier with the thinner sockets. For the rear side of the LCA, access is easy. I used a deep-well 7/8" socket. Again, same thing - impacts are thicker and don't have as much clearance.
I recommend putting the bolts in from the front if you can. My van wasn't symmetric - I could only do this on the driver's side, so do whatever works on your van. Torque is 110 lb-ft on that bolt. The upper nut is 22 lb-ft, but there's no torque wrench I have that fits up there. 22 lb-ft is essentially "not much," so I did it by hand.
I set all my shocks to full stiff for the initial install, just to see how far they could go. I was surprised at how livable this setup was. Not harsh and a big increase in body control. However, I found that this setup induced some seat shake (caused by the rears - I installed them first and drove the van), and it was a bit abrupt and over-damped up front. The bus would get choppy (a 5-7Hz bounce) on certain surfaces, and was just too vertically busy for max comfort.
Today was such a nice day (81 in Detroit!) that I decided to adjust the shocks. I backed the rears off 1/2 turn from full stiff, and backed the fronts off by, let's say, 5/8 turn. It was more than 1/2, but not 3/4, so there you go.
This helped quite a bit. Most of the seat shake is gone, and now the van breathes a bit more over the small stuff without being floaty. I *may* have gone a bit more soft than I'd like on the front, so I might go a real 1/2 turn out if I get bored someday. However, in this setup, my van is a very nice place to be and is a lot more responsive, etc. Ok, fine, it's not a limo, but it never will be. It's not harsh, probably even less harsh than with my original shocks, and well controlled. I think the rolling plushness is better as well. Even if I lived in CA with smooth roads, I'd still back them off of max with these springs to regain a calm freeway ride.
As a bonus, at full-stiff, the incessant squeaking of the front end was reduced drastically since the van simply didn't move as much. Since going softer, the squeaking has increased a bit and is ammo for maybe making one more adjustment up there.
I'm very happy with the purchase. The adjustability did exactly what I wanted - I was able to pick *my* level of control, and the Konis seem to have a nice range of adjustment. I was initially unsure of what I was getting with these, but I'm now very pleased. We'll see how it goes as I get more miles on them and possibly adjust them one more time. _________________ CTB |
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speedtek Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010 Posts: 234 Location: Prince Albert, SK
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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So, you can adjust them so they are fairly stiff? I'm looking to limit suspension travel a little in the front of mine as the bigger tires can catch the fenders in full luck turns and hitting a good bump. |
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CTB Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010 Posts: 152
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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If hitting a bump is your problem, these won't help. Your situation could be band-aided by more compression damping, and no Vanagon shocks I know of have compression adjustment. The Konis are rebound-adjustable only - the compression has one setting. What you really need are taller bump stops to physically limit your suspension travel. You could do that with your current shocks by removing them, putting an additional ring of jounce bumper material under the one that's already there (inside the plastic dust shield), and then reinstalling. The downside of that is you will bottom out more, and that's generally a harsh event. I'd pick something made of MCU to make the impact less harsh, which many modern jounce bumpers are made of these days. It's that yellowish foam stuff you see on cars now.
_________________ CTB |
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presslab Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008 Posts: 1730 Location: Sonoma County
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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speedtek wrote: |
So, you can adjust them so they are fairly stiff? I'm looking to limit suspension travel a little in the front of mine as the bigger tires can catch the fenders in full luck turns and hitting a good bump. |
My 2WD with 215-75-15 rubbed under a similar situation, so I put a 3/4" thick suspension bushing over the shock shaft under the bump stop. It was something I found in the junk bin, just plain rubber.
It has worked well, I have never bottomed my tires out since. You might also want to consider stiffer springs as stock are pretty soft. _________________ 1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti |
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CTB Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010 Posts: 152
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: |
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With the Vanagon suspension's motion ratio, a little goes a long way. That is, a small reduction of travel at the shock will be a much larger one at the wheel. I'd start small and work my way up. I forget the exact ratio, but 3/4" at the shock is around 1.25" or so at the wheel. That's a lot. _________________ CTB |
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climberjohn Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 1840 Location: Portland Orygun
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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CTB,
That's a very nice write up and photos, thanks for the helpful post.
(I wish I had this to read before I put mine in last year!)
BTW, shox.com has generally good prices on Konis, if folks are looking to buy some.
-CJ _________________ '86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often. |
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CTB Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010 Posts: 152
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, CJ.
I had already ordered mine from Tire Rack during the 20% off Koni sale (might still be on?) when I remembered Shox.com. They would have saved me the cost of shipping. Oh well, at least I've always gotten good service from Tire Rack over the years, so I didn't feel too bad. _________________ CTB |
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Kombi///M3 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 427 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Shocks: Koni + General Install Tips & Review |
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CTB wrote: |
This weekend I installed my new Koni adjustable shocks on my bus. I thought I'd pass along some info/tips/etc that I learned along the way.
My setup: 1984 2wd, Carat springs, 15" SA wheels, 195/70-15 Conti VancoContact 2 tires. Bus weighs 3400 lb - no middle or rear seats.
For both front and rear: The Konis are not gas pressurized, so they do not extend automatically. I recommend turning them upside-down and stroking the shock rod until you notice a large decrease in damping. Then set the damping level to where want and and extend them fully while still upside-down. The twin-tube design means they starve for oil when upside-down, so this enables you to extend them prior to installation, even when set on stiff. If you don't do this, it's a lot more work to extend them when set to stiff. Remember, the adjustment is only on rebound. It's easy to compress them while installing, so it's best to have them too long than too short.
Rear: No rear-specific tips. The rears are very easy and accessible on a Vanagon.
Fronts: The Konis do not have a "blade" on top of the shock rod like the stockers. The have a 5mm female allen head. My 5mm allen did not fit in there once you have the shock on the bus. I recommend going to Lowe's, etc., and getting a set of allen wrenches for $4, use an angle grinder to shorten the 5mm, and then bend it so that the long arm clears the structure of the bus. Here's a picture of what I made, compared to an unaltered 5mm:
I found it difficult to find a combo of tools that would insert into the front of the lower control arm (LCA) without interfering with that support strut that goes to the sta-bar link area. The best combo I found was a breaker bar, a shorty 1/2" extension, and a non-impact 7/8" or 22mm socket:
Impact sockets are thicker and can get stuck in the LCA. Nothing you can't handle with some jiggling around, but it's easier with the thinner sockets. For the rear side of the LCA, access is easy. I used a deep-well 7/8" socket. Again, same thing - impacts are thicker and don't have as much clearance.
I recommend putting the bolts in from the front if you can. My van wasn't symmetric - I could only do this on the driver's side, so do whatever works on your van. Torque is 110 lb-ft on that bolt. The upper nut is 22 lb-ft, but there's no torque wrench I have that fits up there. 22 lb-ft is essentially "not much," so I did it by hand.
I set all my shocks to full stiff for the initial install, just to see how far they could go. I was surprised at how livable this setup was. Not harsh and a big increase in body control. However, I found that this setup induced some seat shake (caused by the rears - I installed them first and drove the van), and it was a bit abrupt and over-damped up front. The bus would get choppy (a 5-7Hz bounce) on certain surfaces, and was just too vertically busy for max comfort.
Today was such a nice day (81 in Detroit!) that I decided to adjust the shocks. I backed the rears off 1/2 turn from full stiff, and backed the fronts off by, let's say, 5/8 turn. It was more than 1/2, but not 3/4, so there you go.
This helped quite a bit. Most of the seat shake is gone, and now the van breathes a bit more over the small stuff without being floaty. I *may* have gone a bit more soft than I'd like on the front, so I might go a real 1/2 turn out if I get bored someday. However, in this setup, my van is a very nice place to be and is a lot more responsive, etc. Ok, fine, it's not a limo, but it never will be. It's not harsh, probably even less harsh than with my original shocks, and well controlled. I think the rolling plushness is better as well. Even if I lived in CA with smooth roads, I'd still back them off of max with these springs to regain a calm freeway ride.
As a bonus, at full-stiff, the incessant squeaking of the front end was reduced drastically since the van simply didn't move as much. Since going softer, the squeaking has increased a bit and is ammo for maybe making one more adjustment up there.
I'm very happy with the purchase. The adjustability did exactly what I wanted - I was able to pick *my* level of control, and the Konis seem to have a nice range of adjustment. I was initially unsure of what I was getting with these, but I'm now very pleased. We'll see how it goes as I get more miles on them and possibly adjust them one more time. |
Nice write up..thx for the info..just got my Koni's and weitec.
I'm a little confuse on adjusting the shocks front and rear while
installed...I guess the rears just pull the bolt and adjust..fro the front,
do you just loosen the top nut and turn the allen key hole?
and lastly what are yuo running for springs?
Thanks again for the info..I'll tackle the job tomorrow.
Cheers,
Ogi |
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CTB Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010 Posts: 152
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:59 am Post subject: |
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You can't adjust the Konis while installed. The rears are easy - remove the lower bolt, compress the shock, adjust it, extend, and re-bolt. The fronts have to come off completely because, like the rears, you have to compress them to adjust them. There's no easy way to do the fronts, but you do get pretty good at doing shock jobs after doing it twice.
I have Carat springs.
As an update, I backed the rears off a bit more since I wrote the post above. I'm now running them backed off one full turn from full stiff. This helped with the seat shake. I'm still debating doing another front adjustment, mostly because of the time/work involved. The rears can be done in 15 minutes. _________________ CTB |
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Kombi///M3 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 427 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Sounds good..thx for the update.
got my Koni's from Shox.com and
the fronts came with only 1 white washer
do I even need this? maybe I can make another
one.
Cheers,
Ogi |
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CTB Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010 Posts: 152
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I didn't use either of the white washers on mine. I'm not saying that's right, but so far no issues without them. _________________ CTB |
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SteelB12 Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2010 Posts: 591 Location: Central Virginia
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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I ordered Konis for the rear and they just don't seem to want to slide into the bracket so that I can bolt them on. Any ideas??
The shocks I am replacing easily slide into the mounting bracket. _________________ 1987 Westy |
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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SteelB12 wrote: |
I ordered Konis for the rear and they just don't seem to want to slide into the bracket so that I can bolt them on. Any ideas??
The shocks I am replacing easily slide into the mounting bracket. |
Take a large Crescent wrench and bend open the bracket a little bit. _________________ '84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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SteelB12 Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2010 Posts: 591 Location: Central Virginia
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: |
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i'll give it a go, but it being me, i'll tear off the entire bracket _________________ 1987 Westy |
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oldhuldy67 Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2008 Posts: 506 Location: somewhere with a southern exposure
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the great write up. I just had 4 KONIs installed by my mechanic, who also has an early AC Vanagon, all 4 set on softest setting. The thinking is to stiffen them up over time as needed as they age.. So, without any test tuning I find the improvement in handling much to my liking. Of course, anything would be better than the factory shocks..and with a fresh set of D load rated Continental VANCOs driving this underpowered, overweight marvel of late 20th century automotive engineering and design actually feels...safe..
Thanks all! All the best, John in GA |
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porterbrown Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2005 Posts: 718 Location: Bentonville, AR
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:35 am Post subject: |
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CTB wrote: |
I didn't use either of the white washers on mine. I'm not saying that's right, but so far no issues without them. |
Resurrecting this thread in regard to the white washer sub-topic. What's the consensus on the white nylon washer?...use it or don't? _________________ '90 Westfalia GL Automatic |
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porterbrown Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2005 Posts: 718 Location: Bentonville, AR
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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porterbrown wrote: |
CTB wrote: |
I didn't use either of the white washers on mine. I'm not saying that's right, but so far no issues without them. |
Resurrecting this thread in regard to the white washer sub-topic. What's the consensus on the white nylon washer?...use it or don't? |
Bumping once more regarding the white nylon washer... _________________ '90 Westfalia GL Automatic |
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sagebus Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004 Posts: 310 Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Shocks: Koni + General Install Tips & Review |
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I just bought a pair, just opened one box, i have not put them on yet. It did not have a white nylon washer. I saw your post and looked in the other box, Viola a white washer on the shaft! I have read other folks post on koni install, adjustment and the like. I dont recall anyone mentioning the white washer.I know i did not answer you question but now you have me wondering if i need said washer now.. _________________ 1984 Vanagon GL, Wolfsburg Westy 1.9 ltr |
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porterbrown Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2005 Posts: 718 Location: Bentonville, AR
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Shocks: Koni + General Install Tips & Review |
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sagebus wrote: |
I just bought a pair, just opened one box, i have not put them on yet. It did not have a white nylon washer. I saw your post and looked in the other box, Viola a white washer on the shaft! I have read other folks post on koni install, adjustment and the like. I dont recall anyone mentioning the white washer.I know i did not answer you question but now you have me wondering if i need said washer now.. |
thanks for contributing--hoping somebody knows the answer!
If you're also doing the rears, I'll give you a heads up about having to spread the shock mounts in order to fit the width of the Koni mounting points. Took me several tries to get frame mounts spread far enough apart to accept the shocks. _________________ '90 Westfalia GL Automatic |
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porterbrown Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2005 Posts: 718 Location: Bentonville, AR
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Shocks: Koni + General Install Tips & Review |
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One final attempt to get an answer on the white plastic washer/ring. I'm putting these puppies on today! _________________ '90 Westfalia GL Automatic |
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