1990 Carat Auto/ 2010 EJ25 Build :)

[wjjr]

Well after many a debate and countless nights of R&D the wife and I have decided to go full out crazy on our '90 Carat, which has the stoke level in the house at an all time high! I have brought up this van in various threads before but it is now time for one all her own. Here's the skinny; picked this one up on a fluke drive by of a local repair shop and got it for $1200, interior is sweet, body has some dents and dings, and she was only running on 3 cylinders but the auto trans was very appealing for the wife with her frequent stop and go daily driving. I went through a bit of "let's see what we can do with what we got" for a month or 2 including swapping motors w/ the one out of the syncro (a build that will have to wait) but ultimately came to the decision to go all out and make her the official family truckster/travel mobile. I have put myself on a lofty 8 week goal w/ a 7-10 k budget (closer to 7 hopefully )

When we got her

The goal here is a surf/beachy theme with character and love as well as extreme comfort and dependability. After looking at a million other swaps and their pros/cons we decided to go suby which led me to this wonderful package I picked up at my buddy's boat shop today (shipped from Minnesota) This would be a 2010 2.5 out of an Impreza w/ 7,104 miles on it!

We have a 3g+ order at smallcar and obviously have quite few more bits to get. Motor is going on the stand when I get off work tomorrow and I will start the list, there is a wrecked '08 in local used parts yard (non you pull obviously) that I hope to pluck as much as I can from Tuesday. We are super exited but well aware of the pitfalls that can come up, wish us luck!!! And sorry for the huge post!!

Voni and Wayne
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[Vango Conversions]

Awesome! You'll love the suby, the wiring on the 2010 could be a bit tricky but if you get it sorted or use an earlier harness you'll be able to make it work.

Have fun!

[GrindGarage]

I'm in the middle of a similar build. Went all small car and so far all is good except for the reverse coolant manifold required me to bend a fuel line. Good luck on the build!
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-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[Volksaholic]

Purdy! I went the Small Car route. They're great guys, but I suggest you read the exhaust threads here and on SubaruVanagon Yahoo group if you haven't already before committing to their exhaust system. The recent thread offers up some good alternatives. Also... check the work on things like the reversed manifold (and any other shop work they do) carefully and report problems immediately. The only complaint I had with them was a worksmanship issue that I had to resolve myself even after paying shipping back to have it repaired.

Paul
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[wjjr]

@ Vango Yeah steep curve there w/ the wiring/ecu or a grand+ to small car, shipping back and forth etc, interested in hearing what you have to say on using earlier harness, pm to come

@ Grind Well that's good to here, are you documenting your build? Always good to see what others are doing, would like to see what you removed/added in the engine bay prior to fitment, pics?

@Volksaholic Thanks, that engine is so clean that I literally licked it Hope not to have any issues w/ smallcar, only heard the best of them and dealing w/ Brian the last week or too has been nothing but a pleasure and very informative, that and already pulled the trigger on the SS exhaust, soooo
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[GrindGarage]

I do have a thread...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439744&highlight=vanny

Gotta update it though. So far bolting all smallcar stuff up to motor and did t-belt, water pump and pulleys. I got the t-belt kit from rockauto and it is a Gates box kit. Good news is that the pulleys that came with the kit had the same bearings in them as the factory ones pulled from the motor. I also got the water pump from them and was pleased with the quality.

On the flexpalte side of the engine there is some oil cover made of plastic that is suppose to leak and I bought a e-bay kit to reseal it with metal cover. Came complete with hardware from a dealer in colorado shipped fast too.

I have a super hectic schedule and will hopefully get some more done this weekend. Trying to get the motor fully prepped before removing the wbx. Oh and I also sourced out the early air intake pipe for my 2.2. My late motor has a huge box at the throttle body.

I am planning on running the stock air box and filter and will probably run a small snorkel up the drivers side pillar, just waiting to get to that point.

As for the header I thought I got what I paid for. Exhaust are not cheap and the quality was pretty good for the coin spent. One note is I do have single port heads. I will be giving the header oil treatments and do not expect it to remain shiny. I have bought and abused a cheap stainless turbo header for my BMW and it exceeded my expectations. The only manifolds that seem to hold up over 10 years are good quality cast iron.

I am happy so far using smallcar. All of the work I had done was completed faster then expected and is of good qualtiy. They communicated well with me. The one thing that is lacking is itemization of parts in their "kit" I just got multiple boxes of parts and had to figure out where everything goes.

Send benplace.com some money and study his pics. He has great documented of suby swaps and puts it all out there on his own dime.
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-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[insyncro]

[Volksaholic]

[DubNuts]

If your having problems finding the correct wiring harness etc there are a few options..
You can run a aftermarket ECU, you may also have problems getting Drive by wire controller setup propperly. Another problem I've seen is guys trying to get the Newer large Intake Manifold to clear the Hatch cover, but there are ways. Ben seems to have it down.
Other Options would be to pickup an Spider Intake style manifold from an earlier 2.5 Subaru one that still has the Throttle Body to connect your gas pedal cable to, you won't lose any power if any by switching manifolds, and actually gain HP by going after market ECU. Plus it would probably be way cheaper then your budgeted 7k number. If you still have the desire and when time permits you can switch things back to the orginal wiring harnes once you have all the wiring, and parts required.
I'm just Sayin, there are ways....
Good Luck.

[wjjr]

Week 1 has been an interesting mix of "wahoo" and "son of a b**ch" mostly due to trying to locate all the bracketry for the ancillaries. Engine we bought did not come w/ bracket 1 neither did any of the parts, apparently these parts are thrown over the proverbial shoulder at the yards. Did have a little bit of luck this week when I found a 2008 in Ocala that hadn't been touched yet but when I got there half of my list was broken due to the severe front end damage and after explaining to the Deliverance cast member the importance of what and where to cut the wiring harness I thought I would at least come out with that but no jackass hacked the shit out of it, next time I assure you I will be over their shoulder the whole time! Did lots of other shopping as well and have several shipments on their way Another downer was when I went to clean up the wbx that's still in the van I noticed where the o2 sensor wiring was melted well into the harness and that one of the nla coolant hoses decided to start leaking, all was fine with it a week ago (well for the most part) Must have seen the Suby replacement and decided to be a dick about it. Any how ging to fix up the wbx a bit to get on cl while still in the van, continue looking for the rest parts I need from donors and patiently wait for the UPS guy. Hopefully things will pick up this week!

Positive attitude engaged,
Wayne
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[r39o]

That wiring harness stuff REALLY scares me. Let us know how you sort that out. I suspect it will be a challenge to get all those little wires to create enough synergy to make the engine run well.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[camerahunter]

What kind of mileage does a 2.5 get?
Pretty ambitious project you have going, I will be following it closely.
No help from me though. I have just stuck with stock.

Thank you,

David
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1984 - Daily driver

[pinealservo]

Sounds like this is going to be a fun project. If you don't have it yet, get the factory service manual for every vehicle you pull parts off of, or at least the major parts, so you know how they were originally supposed to work.

I bought my Vanagon pre-converted with a 2000 EJ25, but I ended up having to go over a lot of the work myself to fix some problems that had either never been addressed at all or which had stopped working correctly at some point. I still need to make a circuit to fool the computer into thinking one of the emissions-related sensors that I don't have is there. There's a small board from SmallCar that's supposed to do it, but it's only got a single point of adjustment for several sensors at once, and I haven't been able to get them all happy at the same time.

Anyway, the FSM was invaluable for tracking down computer/wiring problems and for adding the Subaru air conditioning compressor, which had been left off in the initial conversion. I still want to add cruise control, but it's way down on my list. I'd recommend grabbing the air conditioning compressor and bracketry if you don't have it now, even if your van doesn't currently have an AC system or you don't plan on hooking it up right away. You can successfully retrofit AC, and if you can handle doing an engine conversion yourself, you can probably handle getting AC installed as well.

Good luck to you, and may you be able to get it running on time!

[Volksaholic]

@camerahunter: There are threads enough discussing mileage to make your eyes melt, but the short answer that the WBX and the EJ2x won't make much difference. It's more how you drive it than what 4 cylinder horizontally opposed engine is powering it. There are a few accounts to the contrary but I tend to be skeptical. The big difference is that you can get about the same mileage (or a little better) with much more get-up-and-go-power... but of course abusing that will drop your mileage.

Pinealservo is right that the factory service manuals, both for your engine and the Bentley for the van, will make life SO MUCH easier during your conversion. My engine is old enough I was able to find a boot-legged copy of the manual online. I'm a reference material kind of guy and would probably still have another 5 years left to build the harness if I hadn't found the manual. The Subie manuals are expensive, but they're broken down in sections and for the most part you only need the engine and electrical/wiring sections. That said, I ended up referencing the fuel delivery, cooling system, and A/C sections too... but I probably could have gotten by without them. There are pay services you can access for the manuals and maybe download what you need if you can't find another source.

Paul
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[wjjr]

The wiring I am biting the bullet and sending it into SC, pricey and I definitely received the "we strongly suggest getting the wiring from same car as engine" talk from Brian but I am pretty sure that is a "CYA" thing for just in case. Just using the harness and their ECM, so should be just fine, no worries there really. I am expecting to get 20/25 mpgs but we'll see w/ the automatic. To make the harness a little more of a pita I am trying to get it from one w/ cruise control as well, not a huge priority but would be nice. As far as manuals for the Suby I am considering signing up for one of these guys, AllDataDIY http://www.alldatadiy.com/index.html Or Mitchell On Demand http://www.eautorepair.net/app/YearsMakes.asp like ETKA, but for any car you pick (wish you could subscribe and search any car)

Happy Easter Bunny Day or Zombie Christ day whichever ,

Voni and Wayne
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'90 Vanagon Carat auto x2
'87 Vanagon Gl Syncro
'85 Vanagon Wolfsburg Weekender (poptop)

[Volksaholic]

[ftp2leta]

Link



This is an 2010, just finished this one. Harness is from 06-08.

This is the last time I'm saying this, sorry but I'm tired of repeating everything.

Engine: Impreza and Forester 2006 to 2010 all the same EXCEPT for the temp sender!!! on 06-07 it's a 3 pin, 1 for the ECM and one for the dash. 08-10 = 2 pin, the temp is sent to the ECM and back to the cluster, you need to use a second sender on the reverse manifold, a 2.2L one will do and will screw in any early coolant manifold. You CAN'T use a late manifold and reverse this one.

Harness and ECM, do yourself a favor and don't use the 2010. Find a 06-07 Impreza and use this one instead. It's not CAN BUS but OBD2.

You can also use Forester harsess 07-08 but with an Impreza ECM

Forester 2011 engine is completely different.

[/youtube]

CAN BUS harness do work but there are full of obstacle and bug when you mess whit them.

I show a lot of pictures, but I don't show everything, I'm not stupid.

In the past 10 days wile doing that conversion I counted the... how can I say that, let's call them "difficulties" or maybe small stuff that can make your engine blow up in the first 20 minutes or simply don't work.

There is 13...

I will give you one and only one.

Small Car engine mount, the rear part doesn't fit on late engine, it's interfering with the thermostat housing. If you don't grind this one your forcing the left engine mount side.

This is one "glitch".

Voila for #1. Still, I will follow your thread. You may here about some of the other mod you may have to do along the way.

Those fine tuning stuff where find bt me and Hans from Vanaru over the past 5 years, we lost countless hours on them, we struggle hard to fix them. Time is money, sadly.

Haaa, I'll give you another one, drive by wire (between harness and gas pedal location, no matter whats the length) ... wire gage (size) and is it shielded... SHIELD this one big time if you don't want to end up with a Toyota like problem.

Regards, Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[pinealservo]

The mix-and-match thing is definitely doable, but it would definitely help to understand how EFI systems work and what all the sensors are for. For example, if your engine come with a MAP sensor to measure air consumption, while the ECU expects a MAF sensor, you're not going to be able to get it to run well, if at all, without grabbing the MAF sensor. Definitely get yourself an OBD-II reader, too. If you have an Android or iOS device, get a bluetooth OBD-II dongle and get one of the slick OBD-II apps. You'll be able to see real-time data from most of the engine sensors that drive the EFI system, and missing or mismatched sensors should show screwy data there.

It's not clear from the conversation so far whether you've got an ECU w/wiring harness yet, but if you're not going to match the computer with the engine, you should probably follow Volksaholic's advice and get that stuff from a pre-CAN vehicle so you don't have to deal with all that mess. Maybe you've already worked that out with SmallCar, though, since you'd need some extra equipment to hook up the drive-by-wire stuff. My 2001 stuff was pretty nice to deal with, and it makes the intake easier since it doesn't require a MAF sensor. I fried an ECU while debugging wiring and was able to pick up a replacement for cheap via car-part.com.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Good luck, keep us posted.

[pinealservo]

Ha, I left the computer without posting the message I wrote, and meanwhile Ben left a nugget of wisdom. Listen to him, not me.

[ftp2leta]

Tip #3

Look carefully at the engine carrier bar where it's mating with the chassis.
Look at the 1 1/4 spacer block, you need that the clear the lid form the top of engine. with our new engine mount there is no need for such spacers.

_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta