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Kylo Rich
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: BOTH brake lights out 1982 Vanagon |
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I am going to dig this one up from the grave. I am currently having the same issue as previous users and have read the forums.
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side. I have done the following:
1. Removed tail lights and checked assembly cleaning with contact cleaner along the way. Back wire harness assembly appears to all be getting power reading with my ohm meter.
2. Removed wire harness from Brake light relay switch and appear to be getting power at both the 3 prong switch and wire harness and tested as instructed in previous forums.
3. Appear to be getting an ohm reading at the input side of the fuse #1 and 2. The reading is different than my headlights #3 and 4 but that's likely normal.
A few things to note:
A) The brake fluid MIGHT possibly be leaking slowly because I had it full last year and it appears to be below the low line now. I did find a small pile of brake fluid down on my door step one time but do not appear to have an active leak when under the dash.
B) I already purchased and have a new brake Master Cylinder (german high quality) and Brake light switches with intent to replace anyway. Have yet to perform the job.
Is it possible I just need to replace the Master Cylinder? Do the brake light switches not work when you are low on fluid or leaking?
Not sure where to go from here? Maybe I am not getting a read at the pedal? Meaning it is acting as if I am not pressing the brake at all.
HELP!
I appreciate everyone who takes the time to read and reply. You are the real MVP!!
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich
Last edited by Kylo Rich on Fri May 13, 2016 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kylo Rich
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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I wonder if I need to wire my own pedal sensor 
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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pathao
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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IIRC brake lights is under S8 ! But it's a little more complicated ...
at one time we had air in the system and one of the switch did not work. Is you pedal soft ?
No brake or tail light .... did you look up yours ground back there ?
the setup is there to warn you if tgere is a fault in the hydraulic of one of the dual circuit. I would not disable that. I'm thinking (after reading about poor quality replacement switch) to install a relay in the engine compartment wich will take the load off the switches. On my to do list.
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1982 AC P27 - 2.0 FI FED - 091 - BA6
English is a second language to me |
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Kylo Rich
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| pathao wrote: |
IIRC brake lights is under S8 ! But it's a little more complicated ...
at one time we had air in the system and one of the switch did not work. Is you pedal soft ?
No brake or tail light .... did you look up yours ground back there ?
the setup is there to warn you if tgere is a fault in the hydraulic of one of the dual circuit. I would not disable that. I'm thinking (after reading about poor quality replacement switch) to install a relay in the engine compartment wich will take the load off the switches. On my to do list. |
No, the pedal is not soft. The brake fluid is low though.
What do you mean did you look up your ground "back there" ? Do you mean back behind the fusebox or back near the brakelight wire assembly near the bulb?
Thank you, sir.
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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goffoz
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 1486
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Kylo Rich wrote: |
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side. I have done the following:
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Similtaneous loss would indicate a bad ground, not sure about your year?
..But on later vans there is a ground screw on the left side of the engine compartment, you'll see multiple brown wires terminating under a screw head.
Moisture and heat and current, cause the screw to rust over decades, take it out wire brush the ring terminals( or cut and replace) and install a new shiny, slightly larger sheet metal screw,
you'll be amazed how much brighter and quicker everything gets 
If you do this to every ground you can find, alot of electrical gremlins will disappear |
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dhaavers
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8403
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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Brake & tail lights share a ground point just below the coil on the left side of the engine bay.
Simple, basic maintenance...check it out.
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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pathao
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Kylo Rich wrote: |
What do you mean did you look up your ground "back there" ? Do you mean back behind the fusebox or back near the brakelight wire assembly near the bulb?
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near brake light just like what goffoz and dhaavers are saying
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1982 AC P27 - 2.0 FI FED - 091 - BA6
English is a second language to me |
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Kylo Rich
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| goffoz wrote: |
| Kylo Rich wrote: |
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side. I have done the following:
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Similtaneous loss would indicate a bad ground, not sure about your year?
..But on later vans there is a ground screw on the left side of the engine compartment, you'll see multiple brown wires terminating under a screw head.
Moisture and heat and current, cause the screw to rust over decades, take it out wire brush the ring terminals( or cut and replace) and install a new shiny, slightly larger sheet metal screw,
you'll be amazed how much brighter and quicker everything gets
If you do this to every ground you can find, alot of electrical gremlins will disappear |
Thanks for the info. I found the screw (pictured) under the drivers side of the engine compartment near the drivers side brake light assembly. I removed it, cleaned it, sanded the ground area, and still nothing. I can replace the wire harness and ground screw, but it looked decent enough to where I should be getting some power.
Does the ground only support the brake lights? My running lights work when the lights are on. My blinkers and headlights work....
This blue wire pictured runs from below the engine compartment up to the top of the van. This has no impact on my brake lights, correct? The wire goes nowhere. I think it was for the hatch light or something.
Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the assistance!
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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dhaavers
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8403
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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I'd also be sceptical of that blue plastic "Scotch-Loc" connector on the ground wire...possibly/probably
corroded & giving a bad connection. Do you have continuity through all the ground connections?
You've definitely got a batch of non-stock wiring going on there.
The orange wire nuts in pic #3 have NO place in automotive wiring... 
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Kylo Rich
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Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| dhaavers wrote: |
I'd also be sceptical of that blue plastic "Scotch-Loc" connector on the ground wire...possibly/probably
corroded & giving a bad connection. Do you have continuity through all the ground connections?
You've definitely got a batch of non-stock wiring going on there.
The orange wire nuts in pic #3 have NO place in automotive wiring... |
From my basic automotive electrical skills, I would say yes, the ground wire is getting continuity.
If I probe 1 prong onto the ground wire terminal and the other to any ground on the van, this would be a sufficient way to test continuity? Or do I literally need to touch each side of the ground wire (who knows where that comes from).
I also checked the fuses and both also have continuity. Same with the brake light switches. All seem functional.
About the blue "Scotch-Loc" -- I did a continuity test on all sides of the blue connector by touching one prong inside to the wire and the other touching a ground point in the van. All sides beeped and had solid readings. I also sprayed it out with contact cleaner! So dirty...
Definitely some non stock wiring here in the back and unfortunately some under the dash. I am going to simply cut and tape the blue wire as it currently serves no purpose. Maybe it was for the reverse light for rear hatch lol. What a mess.
I cannot thank you enough, my friend. Still hunting...
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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pathao
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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If it were me, to troubleshoot, I would look at the connector in the black plastic box in the engine bay left hand side (near you coil, near the ground you just found). In there, there is a few connectors. The wire color (stock) is
BK/W : turn left
BK/G : turn right
BK/BL : backup light
GY/BK : tail left
GY/R : tail right
GY/G : licence plate
R/BK : brake lights
I would check if there is juice coming from the dash.
And I would jump +12 volts down stream to see if the lights working
edit : sorry. re-read your first post, you've already check that power coming to the harness.
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1982 AC P27 - 2.0 FI FED - 091 - BA6
English is a second language to me |
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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Rather than using a continuity meter, get yourself an ice pick circuit tester as pictured and connected to the grounds you're using, check the power feed at the bulb sockets, wiring , to the lamps etc.
If your seeing no power, get onto a better ground and check the power again.
Work yourself up forward till you find the area of loss.
This tool will save you a bunch of time and headaches locating the problem.
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Kylo Rich
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Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Rather than using a continuity meter, get yourself an ice pick circuit tester as pictured and connected to the grounds you're using, check the power feed at the bulb sockets, wiring , to the lamps etc.
If your seeing no power, get onto a better ground and check the power again.
Work yourself up forward till you find the area of loss.
This tool will save you a bunch of time and headaches locating the problem. |
OK, great. I have a 12 V test light thing but not sure if it is the same as this. Is this simply a test light?
So I would connect it to the ground source and then poke around each wiring to see where the connection is lost? It just seems like everything has had power so far and I cannot seem to isolate the issue.
Thanks again, buddy!
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1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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Abscate 
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Posts: 23871
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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You are looking for 12 VDc at the load ( the brake light). If you don't find it, you follow the wire trace back until you find the break.
Those scotch lock connectors can break the supply Wรญre and leave the splice hot, do look carefully at those.
As stated, those wire nuts should be removed. The person who did this had no automotive wiring skill, actually, little wiring skill of any kind.
If both the taillights and brake lights stop working, it's usually bad grounds
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Kylo Rich
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Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Abscate wrote: |
You are looking for 12 VDc at the load ( the brake light). If you don't find it, you follow the wire trace back until you find the break.
Those scotch lock connectors can break the supply Wรญre and leave the splice hot, do look carefully at those.
As stated, those wire nuts should be removed. The person who did this had no automotive wiring skill, actually, little wiring skill of any kind.
If both the taillights and brake lights stop working, it's usually bad grounds |
I will go ahead and cut the ground wire, place a new wire terminal, and get a new fresh ground screw.
Do you think I should get rid of that wire splice? Is there a more effective way to do this? This is not stock - correct? I wonder why it is even spliced.
Where is the "load" located? Do you mean the wire harness that attaches to the actual brake light assembly?
Thanks for the help!!
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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Kylo Rich
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Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Abscate wrote: |
You are looking for 12 VDc at the load ( the brake light). If you don't find it, you follow the wire trace back until you find the break.
Those scotch lock connectors can break the supply Wรญre and leave the splice hot, do look carefully at those.
As stated, those wire nuts should be removed. The person who did this had no automotive wiring skill, actually, little wiring skill of any kind.
If both the taillights and brake lights stop working, it's usually bad grounds |
Another small question - Do I have to press down on the brake to address whether or not the load is getting power (I dont think so)? I know I had to do this to test the brake light relay switch under the master cylinder.
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8457
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Kylo Rich wrote: |
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side.
...
My running lights work when the lights are on. |
Clarify please, since the tail lights are running lights: Are the tail lights working (remember they are separate bulbs from the brake light bulbs), or not working?
Not sure why this hasn't been suggested thus far, but when my VW's encounter brake light issues, the first thing I do is unplug the switch harness, jump (aka bypass) the connections, and turn the key to "on":
(^Borrowed pic)
Upon supplying direct/bypass power, do the brake lights shine (or is there 12V at the light harness)? Yes: Faulty switch(es). No: Fault in the wiring system somewhere (fuse, grounds, wires).
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Kylo Rich
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| Kylo Rich wrote: |
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side.
...
My running lights work when the lights are on. |
Clarify please, since the tail lights are running lights: Are the tail lights working (remember they are separate bulbs from the brake light bulbs), or not working?
Not sure why this hasn't been suggested thus far, but when my VW's encounter brake light issues, the first thing I do is unplug the switch harness, jump (aka bypass) the connections, and turn the key to "on":
(^Borrowed pic)
Upon supplying direct/bypass power, do the brake lights shine (or is there 12V at the light harness)? Yes: Faulty switch(es). No: Fault in the wiring system somewhere (fuse, grounds, wires). |
I performed this test just now and when jumping the switch, the brake lights ARE WORKING. It must be bad switches?
I have new ones from GW but am reading about how crappy they are. I also have a high quality German master cylinder that must be installed. I suppose I can install the new switches then and give them a whirl.
Thanks a ton. I wish I had jumped the wire sooner as instructed by the thread you referred, as I did read it.
NOTE - I also read on that thread (the guy who posted this pic) that when he did the jump test, the lights did in fact work. He replaced the brake light switches and continued to have the issue. When all was said and done, he was not pressing down on the brake hard enough.
Do you think because my brake fluid is low / leaking that the proper amount of pressure if not allowing the switches to effectively work? ____
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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Kylo Rich
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Kylo Rich wrote: |
| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| Kylo Rich wrote: |
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side.
...
My running lights work when the lights are on. |
Clarify please, since the tail lights are running lights: Are the tail lights working (remember they are separate bulbs from the brake light bulbs), or not working?
Not sure why this hasn't been suggested thus far, but when my VW's encounter brake light issues, the first thing I do is unplug the switch harness, jump (aka bypass) the connections, and turn the key to "on":
(^Borrowed pic)
Upon supplying direct/bypass power, do the brake lights shine (or is there 12V at the light harness)? Yes: Faulty switch(es). No: Fault in the wiring system somewhere (fuse, grounds, wires). |
I performed this test just now and when jumping the switch, the brake lights ARE WORKING. It must be bad switches?
I have new ones from GW but am reading about how crappy they are. I also have a high quality German master cylinder that must be installed. I suppose I can install the new switches then and give them a whirl.
Thanks a ton. I wish I had jumped the wire sooner as instructed by the thread you referred, as I did read it.
NOTE - I also read on that thread (the guy who posted this pic) that when he did the jump test, the lights did in fact work. He replaced the brake light switches and continued to have the issue. When all was said and done, he was not pressing down on the brake hard enough.
Do you think because my brake fluid is low / leaking that the proper amount of pressure if not allowing the switches to effectively work? ____ |
Bumpin this up. So from here I would you suggest to go ahead and just install the new GW switches?
Does anyone have experience with the Gowesty Brake light switches? Are they crap like they used to be in previous threads from 2010 or so?
_________________
1982 Westy "Adeline" 2.3, Air-cooled, Dual Weber Carbs - Left my job of 10 years to hit the road full-time. Instagram @KyloRich |
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RCB
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Brake and Tail Lights BOTH out 1982 Vanagon |
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| Kylo Rich wrote: |
| Kylo Rich wrote: |
| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| Kylo Rich wrote: |
NO BRAKE OR TAIL LIGHTS on each side.
...
My running lights work when the lights are on. |
Clarify please, since the tail lights are running lights: Are the tail lights working (remember they are separate bulbs from the brake light bulbs), or not working?
Not sure why this hasn't been suggested thus far, but when my VW's encounter brake light issues, the first thing I do is unplug the switch harness, jump (aka bypass) the connections, and turn the key to "on":
(^Borrowed pic)
Upon supplying direct/bypass power, do the brake lights shine (or is there 12V at the light harness)? Yes: Faulty switch(es). No: Fault in the wiring system somewhere (fuse, grounds, wires). |
I performed this test just now and when jumping the switch, the brake lights ARE WORKING. It must be bad switches?
I have new ones from GW but am reading about how crappy they are. I also have a high quality German master cylinder that must be installed. I suppose I can install the new switches then and give them a whirl.
Thanks a ton. I wish I had jumped the wire sooner as instructed by the thread you referred, as I did read it.
NOTE - I also read on that thread (the guy who posted this pic) that when he did the jump test, the lights did in fact work. He replaced the brake light switches and continued to have the issue. When all was said and done, he was not pressing down on the brake hard enough.
Do you think because my brake fluid is low / leaking that the proper amount of pressure if not allowing the switches to effectively work? ____ |
Bumpin this up. So from here I would you suggest to go ahead and just install the new GW switches?
Does anyone have experience with the Gowesty Brake light switches? Are they crap like they used to be in previous threads from 2010 or so? |
If you have questions about the Go Westy Brake Light Switches, you cant go wrong with the ATE Brand that Van Cafe has. The ATE parts I have now and have used on my 82 Westy have performed flawlessly. |
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