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KDF Type 166 Schwimmwagen
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: KDF Type 166 Schwimmwagen Reply with quote

What are these parts from?????
In my quest for enough parts to build a replica Type 166 I recently aquired a transfer box and the two drive shafts for it, the person I got them from obtained them from France several years ago. They were sold to him as being from a type 166, however they are different from any that I or or the few people who have seen them have ever come across. Whereas I am sure that they are original KDF parts of the late war period, I can not be sure they are for the type 166 at this moment. It must be said though that it does look like they would fit, whereas it is unlikely that they would fit any other KDF vehicle of the time because the wheel base would be longer, although I'm not sure of this yet.
The parts are all in original 'dunkelgelb' paint, with no primer underneath, not uncommon for the late war period. They show no signs of having been repainted. The transfer box itself does not appear to have been modified or even opened since manufacture, the paint on the bolts and various parts shows this. Please excuse the colour of the first pictures, this is because of the flash, the last picture gives a better idea of the actual colour as it was taken in daylight without a flash.
First of all here is a picture of a regular type 166 transfer box of the 1944 pattern,
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now here is the one I have,
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As you can see it, although it is built around an identical main casting and has a regular 166 hand brake, it is different in at least 4 ways,
Firstly the rectangular cover on the side is thicker, smooth and has no drain plug
Secondly two spacers have been added between the end plates that the shafts project from and the main casting, I believe that this allows for an extra set of bearings to be used, although I have yet to open it.
Thirdly both input and output shafts are longer than the normal 166 type.
Finally , and this is where it gets strange, the input shaft is built to accept a universal joint instead of the regular flexible rubber type.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This drive shaft has another universal joint at the other end too where it connects to the transmission
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You will also notice the gearbox linkage for engaging and disengaging four wheel drive is standard 166.
The front drive shaft from the output shaft of the transferbox is of regular 166 length and utilizes regular flexible couplings but with thicker studs, but the shaft is of a skinny solid type instead of the regular thicker hollow type.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here are some more pictures to study:
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The above shows the regular linkage connection point for the front diff, standard 166, but the extra spacers are clearly visible.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The above picture shows the output shaft, that is made for a regular flexible coupling but is still a little strange in the way it has that little piece of projecting spline and no holes in the thicker studs for cotter pins to work with castle nuts that would normally be used on a 166.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

In this picture you can see the VW typical of the main casting of '44, earlier casting are a little bit different as they have a lot of numbers cast in a raised manner. You can also see how thick the smooth rectangular cover is.

It seems as if this is in general a stronger design, both the prop shaft and the transfer box. I am unaware of a weakness in this area in the original design but I don't own a 166 yet! Is it possible that this is a very late revision from just before production ceased in August (I think?) 1944? whatever this was made for it had a schwimm transmission and front diff as the gearbox and brake connections prove this and it also had a short wheel base. From the main casting paint and lack of primer I think it is of late war, 44 onwards. It has been suggested that it is a post war adaption, and some 166's were actually produced while VW was under British control after the war (believed to have been painted green), but why go to all the trouble of redesigning and manufacturing different parts for a handfull of vehicles and then paint it/them in dunkelgelb. Is this the set up the type 877 used, after all it was bigger, heavier and had larger wheels? Well, anyone got any thoughts?
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KäferKrieger
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.vw166.com/forum/index.php
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KäferKrieger wrote:
http://www.vw166.com/forum/index.php


Yeah, I will post there too, I've been waiting three weeks already for my membership to be activated, they've had problems with hackers, Cheers.
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KäferKrieger
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it was set up for a PTO industrial implement
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KäferKrieger wrote:
Maybe it was set up for a PTO industrial implement

There was a version of the Kubelwagen that was set up with a PTO for tank starting, however it is unlikely that this is the case for the above parts, the attatched gear box linkage shows where it was connected to a KDF transmission, that means rear engine too. Also the driveshafts lengths correspond in length to the 166. The gear shifter is attatched to the top of the transfer box, you would need wheels in front of you, and then there would be no way to get the power from that front shaft, which you would think would be longer, instead of by the drivers feet.. Remember that KDF's like bugs have that dual tube front suspension blocking the front of the vehicle too. There are no surviving tank starters but the vauge description I have read does not correspond. Everything points to this being just a stronger drivetrain, but from what? the million dollar question, I have been activated on the 166 reistry now and have posted there aswell. I wish I could find some pictures of the type 877 drivetrain, it was based on the Schwimms but was it modified at all to cope with the extra weight and bigger wheels?
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt. Q wrote:
... was it modified at all to cope with the extra weight and bigger wheels?

The Type 87/92 both used Schwimmwagen wheels and tires. No bigger and no smaller.
The Schwimmer is quite a heavy car. I doubt that the Type 87 weighed more.
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, that's good to know, but I'm sure now anyway that this is not Type 87/7, the rear drive shaft is longer as are the gearbox linkages on the type 87/7. So I still dont know what it's from! Cheers
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