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91 Carat VR6 Project - The Build
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James 93SLC
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: 91 Carat VR6 Project - The Build Reply with quote

I'm finally moving forward with swapping a VR6 into my 91 Carat. I'll use this thread to document the process as much as possible. In my research here on the Samba I've found a few posts here and there but no real start to end build. Hopefully I can fill the gap with my experience.

Here is the victim, a 97 Golf GTI that was T-boned, and the transplant patient in the background. I'm glad I get to pull the engine and wiring myself so that I get everything I might need.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The engine. I've started pulling stuff in prep of pulling the engine.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"


Last edited by James 93SLC on Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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xoo00oox
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice find, I'll be watching this. The AAA VR6 is a great engine even with 250K on them, they don't seem to wear out.
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vwjoel
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will be good. I have been considering what engine to put in my 87 Doka. From what I've seen the VR6 gives up more ground clearance than the 1.8t. I am interested to see how you overcome this.
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fastwagens
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwjoel wrote:
This will be good. I have been considering what engine to put in my 87 Doka. From what I've seen the VR6 gives up more ground clearance than the 1.8t. I am interested to see how you overcome this.


I have done this conversion a couple times. And as for clearance the bottom of the oil pan in no lower than the original engine carrier.


I am starting another transplant this summer in the carrier. My doner is a 95 gti with 110k on the clock.

One of the drawbacks for most is how much the engine pokes into the cabin.
I have never found this an issue if it is trimmed out nicely.

If the og poster is interested in any info feel free to pm me.
We may have spoken in the past.

One thing to do is get the adapter plate on order as it can take 8 weeks to arrive.
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BenT Syncro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who makes a rear engine carrier? I've got a couple of VR6 engines from B4 Passats. One is being yanked out of a wagon to make way for a TDI conversion. I have Doka with a troublesome ABA conversion which would make a great home for one of these engines. No rear deck clearance issues there.

Does the KEP inline-4 VW adapter plates fit the VR6? just wondering out loud. The downside is I converted the Doka to auto trans.
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fastwagens
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenT Syncro wrote:
Who makes a rear engine carrier? I've got a couple of VR6 engines from B4 Passats. One is being yanked out of a wagon to make way for a TDI conversion. I have Doka with a troublesome ABA conversion which would make a great home for one of these engines. No rear deck clearance issues there.

Does the KEP inline-4 VW adapter plates fit the VR6? just wondering out loud. The downside is I converted the Doka to auto trans.


i used the stock vanagon carrier and moved it back a few inches then made some brackets to hold the mounts.

I am not sure if the inline four will work. that might be a question for KEP.
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ThorAlex
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vr6 uses the same bolt pattern as the audi I-5 I think. vw-winkler in germany makes a vr6 specific adapter: http://vw-winkler.de/Bausatz-VR-6-Kennbst-AAA-kpl
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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThorAlex wrote:
The vr6 uses the same bolt pattern as the audi I-5 I think. vw-winkler in germany makes a vr6 specific adapter: http://vw-winkler.de/Bausatz-VR-6-Kennbst-AAA-kpl


Unfortunately it doesn't use the Audi 5 cylinder pattern. The Audi V6 does though.

The VR6 shares it's bolt pattern only with the V5.

MG
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ThorAlex
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ok, thanks for the correction Mike
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BenT Syncro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fastwagens wrote:


i used the stock vanagon carrier and moved it back a few inches then made some brackets to hold the mounts.

I am not sure if the inline four will work. that might be a question for KEP.


Got any pics of the brackets?
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BenT Syncro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThorAlex wrote:
The vr6 uses the same bolt pattern as the audi I-5 I think. vw-winkler in germany makes a vr6 specific adapter: http://vw-winkler.de/Bausatz-VR-6-Kennbst-AAA-kpl


As Mike wrote, the SA bellhousing you linked to above will work on most Audi 5-cyl, V6, V8, & some 4-cyl (924 Porsche & VW LT's). However, VW used a different bolt pattern. The Audi bubble blocks must have the VW pattern though because they used those for the Eurospec, later Tiico inline-4 Vanagon conversions. The 80's-90's diesel Volvos used LT engines so theoretically should fit the SA bellhousing too. VR6, is a no go for the SA BH.
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fastwagens
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenT Syncro wrote:
fastwagens wrote:


i used the stock vanagon carrier and moved it back a few inches then made some brackets to hold the mounts.

I am not sure if the inline four will work. that might be a question for KEP.


Got any pics of the brackets?


Here is the best I could find. But you get the idea

[img] http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=350303 [/img]

I'll have to fix this link when I get off work I proves to hard to do from my iPod.
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BenT Syncro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fastwagen,

The iPod is like Wasserboxer. You need a 4G. It's the VR6 of Samba postings. Twisted Evil I've posted your pic link correctly below.

From the looks of things, you used some sort of angle iron. Do you recall any of the dimensions and as to where on the engine you bolted the mounts?

Did you do your own wiring?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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fastwagens
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenT Syncro wrote:
Fastwagen,

The iPod is like Wasserboxer. You need a 4G. It's the VR6 of Samba postings. Twisted Evil I've posted your pic link correctly below.

From the looks of things, you used some sort of angle iron. Do you recall any of the dimensions and as to where on the engine you bolted the mounts?

Did you do your own wiring?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In the pic you see some angle iron I used to weld a base on the carrier and some square tube up to the engine. The mount is a trans mount from a standard chevy. I have the part # if interested.

Yes I did the wiring myself. you basically need to add your 12V always on your 12v Keyed on and a ground. The rest of the wiring is making sure the sensors are indicating ie: temp, tach etc.
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James 93SLC
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fastwagens wrote:

I have done this conversion a couple times. And as for clearance the bottom of the oil pan in no lower than the original engine carrier.

One of the drawbacks for most is how much the engine pokes into the cabin.
I have never found this an issue if it is trimmed out nicely.

If the og poster is interested in any info feel free to pm me.
We may have spoken in the past.

One thing to do is get the adapter plate on order as it can take 8 weeks to arrive.


Already have the adapter plate in hand. I bought it used here off Samba (was that you Fastwagens??)

I'm going to experiment to minimize engine poke and sheet metal cutting. Ground clearance is the least of my concerns since I plan to do all pavement driving.

I've seen fastwagens engine mount pictures before. That passenger side design is a problem for me since I want to retail the power steering pump and A/C. I might fab a second carrier bar to run under the engine at the engine/trans mounting (there is a raised section in the oil pan) to pick up the OE mount on that side.

Thanks for the help invite fastwagens. We have msg'd a few times before and I'm sure you'll hear from me again Smile
_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
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BenT Syncro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, now the pic makes sense. Guessing fab the bar with angle iron. Then THAT square tube piece. Since the rear bar will be relocated, you can't just bolt it on and figure out how high and how far the front piece needs to be. Think

Since you've done a couple, maybe you ought to make and sell these brackets to make the lives of future VR6 converters easier.
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James 93SLC
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Engine removal update Reply with quote

Finished up pulling the engine out of the donor. I'll finish pulling wiring this weekend and then work on going over the motor. I'll be pulling the timing chain covers and oilpan to inspect things, and will likely pull the head as well. The bottom ends on these are very stout, so I don't expect any surprises. I may also send the head out to check the valve sealing.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is looking at the trans end of the motor as viewed from the side. Here you can see the coilpack sitting at the top
and the thermostat housing just below it. These are the parts that extend away from the trans mating surface and
require cutting sheet metal in the van for clearance. Hopefully I can keep that to a minimum with some parts relocation
and engine mounting. The adapter plate will also help reduce the the difference in offset.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a good view that shows the height of the motor.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
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James 93SLC
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:14 pm    Post subject: Update Reply with quote

I've got the VR6 in the van and it's a mid-engine now! Well OK it's not running in the van, but it is "technically" in the van.
Need to get my friends hoist over to my house to unload it, then I need to find the other part of my engine stand. Might just make a Harbor Freight run and buy a new one.
Will also finish pulling wires sometime Monday. Need to also work up my parts order for some gaskets and misc.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
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carterzest
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Update Reply with quote

James 93SLC wrote:
I've got the VR6 in the van and it's a mid-engine now! Well OK it's not running in the van, but it is "technically" in the van.
Need to get my friends hoist over to my house to unload it, then I need to find the other part of my engine stand. Might just make a Harbor Freight run and buy a new one.
Will also finish pulling wires sometime Monday. Need to also work up my parts order for some gaskets and misc.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
How many miles on your engine? Thanks for starting the thread. Good to have references Cool
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James 93SLC
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Update Reply with quote

carterzest wrote:
How many miles on your engine? Thanks for starting the thread. Good to have references Cool


The VR6 has approx 130K. I'll be checking out the head, timing chain guides and bottom end before putting it in service.

The WBX that's currently in the van just turned over 100K. It runs well but has developed a slight coolant weep on both heads.
_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
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