An inverter/converter question

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: An inverter/converter question

Hi y'all , this is a simple question yyo the electricly minded( of which I am not!) I have an 87 vanagon with a single running battery , we camp in her a lot and want some power to boil water in a kettle and recharge the DVD player, cell phone that is all nothing bigger. I saw a converter in lowes which has two outlets and a USB port, it had croc clips to attach it to the battery , I have little kids and don't want croc clips exposed , my question is this can I wire it straight to the battery and leave it there or does it need a fuse and a switch.
I'm a novice at electrical so please keep it simple!! And I did the search, I came across a whole bunch of westy stuff , I'm trying to keep it very simple and not do a major wiring job!!
Any help would be great thanks in advance
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"

JunkYarDog · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject:

Anything wired to the battery should have a fuse, and preferably within 6 inches of the battery. I would recommend that an inverter to charge a cell is fine, but to use it to create heat for any reason will suck a lot out of your battery. For that purpose I would go for a generator, here is an example of one on the cheaper side http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/1200-watt-portable-generator-by-etq.aspx?a=522807
Be aware however that generators are listed at their highest wattage which is only good for a temporary surge, as in initial start up on most electric motor items. Always look for the running wattage to be sure you have enough to meet the power needs of what you are going to run. for example a hotplate to heat water might use 1200 watts. so the above generator is not sufficiant. However for this one would be http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/coleman-1850w-generator.aspx?a=805001

Also know that this same information applys to inverters and the way they are rated. Good luck!
_________________
I have never owned a VW I didn't like, but there have been a few Fords and Chevy's.
85' GL Sunroof
68' Beetle sedan
72' Chevy C10 (LWB Step)
(67' Volvo 122S pending)

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject:

Ok so what's the difference between an inverter and a converter?
Also a generator is a bit over the top for us and why do converters have croc clips to connect directly to the battery?
Although it makes sense to have a fuse , would the converter have one inside?
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"

msewalson · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject:

Here's the answers to you questions.

Voltage Converter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_converter

Inverter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_inverter

You might want to consider one of these,
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1140_125/auxiliary_battery_wiring_kit.html
wired to a deep cycle battery. Do a search for aux battery for more info.

Matt
_________________
87 Syncro w/EJ22

thatvwbusguy · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject:

Skip the inverter completely, there is no real need for one to do what you are looking for.

You can recharge your Portable DVD player and Cell Phone directly from the 12V socket coming from your starting battery. Just google "travel charger + name & model number" of your appliance. There may even be some universal DC adapters that will have tips to power both devices.

Using the normal home chargers to recharge these devices thru an inverter is converting Direct Current from your battery to Alternating Current (like in your house) with the inverter and then from Alternating Current back to Direct Current (which your Portable DVD Player / Cell Phone needs) via the normal wall charger that is plugged into the inverter. This is a very lossy way to charge anything.

For any cooking or heating needs, look for the smallest propane appliance that will do the job. Many of the little stoves that mount on top of a 1lb propane bottle can also function as a small space heater. Here is the first example that popped up: http://www.ourcampsite.com/14219.html
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

Volksaholic · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject:

Jay said exactly what I was thinking when I read your first post. Not being a 'lectrical guy it might be hard to relate to how much energy it takes to boil water. It's not an efficient thing to try to do on the road. For compact I used a Coleman white gas stove that I bought for backpacking years ago. It stowes nicely under the bench seat and if I top it up before a weekend trip I never kill it. I also have a 2 burner propane for heating water and more serious cooking.

Paul
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject:

Is the 12 volt socket the cig lighter? Or is there another one? We don't have a westy . As for heating water we talked about a propane heater and that's the next thing on the shopping list
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"

thatvwbusguy · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject:

Yes, the 12V socket is the lighter socket. It is fairly easy to add more lighter sockets throughout the van in places you would like to use them on a regular basis. I currently have 12V sockets in 4 different locations in my '85 Westy. This way I don't have to have cords dangling where someone might kick them or unplug them accidentally.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

kamzcab86 · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject:

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject:

Looks like jetboil is the way to go! I just checked them out at ems and the price isn't bad. As for the inverter/ converter I'm gonna leave it and just plug stuff into the cig lighter while we drive. Im not knowledgable enough about electric to be messin with it this close to a cross country trip . Thanks for all the imput.
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"

tencentlife · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject:

JunkYarDog · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject:

I don't try to get to into the details of the things I don't know that much about. I do know if you have a large inverter you better have a good battery. I guess I assumed that if you ran it to peek for an extended period it would peter out, but I guess thats due to the battery. Thanks for the education.
_________________
I have never owned a VW I didn't like, but there have been a few Fords and Chevy's.
85' GL Sunroof
68' Beetle sedan
72' Chevy C10 (LWB Step)
(67' Volvo 122S pending)

malibu · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject:

There are a lot of options for boiling water. I keep one of these in all our cars with some backpacking food. They work great and are cheap.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultra-mini-portable-outdoor-metal-gas-stove-with-a-case-2-ag3-52063
_________________
85 westy weekender - 2.5 suby
85 full westy - 2.2 suby - Sold

thatvwbusguy · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:15 am Post subject:

The size of the inverter itself (maximum wattage capacity) has no direct correlation to how quickly the battery will be drained. A 150W inverter will pull the same amount of juice out of your battery as a 5,000W inverter to power the same load (Amps = Watts / Volts). Any difference in the amount of battery drain will be due to the efficiency rating of the inverter being used. With inverters in general, higher efficiency costs more money.

In this case, think of the size of the inverter as "potential energy" and the power being used as "kinetic energy".

When using a small power source like the batteries in our vans, the goal should alway be to use the most efficient consumers available to do the job. This is why we tend to go for LED bulbs instead of incandescent and such. The more efficient our appliances are, the longer our batteries will last.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:39 am Post subject:

Wow, at this rate I'll be a sparky in no time! Thanks tencent for the imput, iv read some of your other posts about this topic, very indepth. It never amazes me how much I can learn from this forum and how such a simple question can lead to an education. Thanks for all the help.
One day I will overhaul the electrics in Elsie and it's posts like this and you guys that will surly help.
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"

climberjohn · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:46 am Post subject:

Hiho!

Here's a thread you may find useful:

Charger with two 12 volt outlets and two 2 USB ports
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=305094

This could plug right into your existing cig lighter, and yer done, no wiring required. Stick some heavy duty velcro on the dash to keep it in place.

As mentioned above, I suggest another means to boil water and cook simple meals.

If you see yourself boiling water mostly inside the van, a small propane stove is your best bet.

If you are boiling mostly outside the van in more rural areas, then I recommend a stove that burns real wood/fuel, rather than propane. Cheaper, more sustainable, more green than those evil disposable propane canisters.

I have a wood gassifier stove, and I LOVE it.
Read up on this amazing little wood stove here:

http://www.woodgas-stove.com/

and one more cool option is the Kelly Kettle, for water boiling only:
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/004782.php

-CJ
_________________
'86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often.

pb24ss · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:01 am Post subject:

I love my Xantrex Freedom HF converter / inverter. It's one of my favorite additions. It's overkill for charging your cell phone, but great for running all your DC accessories off AC shore power all the while charging the house (and starting) battery.

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the link CJ , I found the same thing the other day when I googled car charger, overstock.com has them for 6 buks! So anyway I bought a jetboil from ems (the java one comes with a coffee press, cool!)and I'm looking for a rugged, built to withstand kids, 2 plug cig lighter charger , there are plenty out there so it shouldn't be to hard of a search !!
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"

misterbee · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:23 am Post subject:

irgsmoore4, got a link for that charger? I dont find it at overstock.com.

Thanks.

irgsmoore4 · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:36 am Post subject:

Hey misterbee, I'm not sure how to post the link( being computer/ iPhone stupid , but all I did was google car charger then clicked on anyone that was overstock . Com then search in that site for multi charger , I just did it and today's price is 8.49 BARGIN!!!! There are plenty on there I just kept searchin ,
Good luck
Ivan Cool

_________________
Ivan
99 Eurovan (The Tortuga)
87 2.1 WBX Vanagon ( Elsie ) sold
Wife,3 kids 1 dog(luna)
"Needle Noddle Noo"


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