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Ethanol Fuel Friend or Foe?
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ldsvwguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Ethanol Fuel Friend or Foe? Reply with quote

So most of the gas stations of my house have a new (to me) disclaimer on their pumps stating that they serve up to 10% ethanol. How does that effect my VW? I mean I started this hobby putting leaded gas into my engine, then it was unleaded and now Ethanol mix. Should I be running additives? I want to get the best life and performance from my engine. I have a 1776 with Dual Weber 44s.

On that note my wife's car requires Premium gas only. Will this Ethanol thing cause issues with her car as well?
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miniman82
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ethanol has been a gas additive for a long time, don't worry about it unless you plan on running E85.
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GDOG57
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree,ethanol corrodes gas tanks and float bowls. It absorbs moisture quicker than brake fluid. And it has a shelf life of only 90 days,that means after 90 days the gas starts going bad. Use STA-BIL Ethanol treatment in your tank.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had no trouble using it everyday, runs great.
But it's shelf life is only 1/3 of pure gas, it absorbs water and is more likely to gunk up carbs if a car is you let it sit for a month.

So it's bad news for small engines and other things that still use ancient carburetor technology.
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Howard 111
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.hagerty.com/ethanol/faq.aspx


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ldsvwguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So pretty sucky for older engines. What are the alternatives? Is there an additive that can be run?
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Howard 111
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know. I run race gas in my Ghia, but it's turboed and F/I and needs it. But I seldom drive it so the expense doesn't hurt so much.

My PT Cruiser is my daily car, but I've never had trouble with it.....so far.


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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have been having problems with Ethanol enriched fuels for a while.. They are requiring "multi-fuel" rated hoses and are killing some electric fuel pumps.

The first thing that I saw go south when using Ethanol based fuels was German fuel hose, it won't even last a year in my cars with Ethanol enriched fuels. It will dry rot and crack, especially where the hose slides over fittings/ barbs.

The key has been ethanol balancing Sta-Bil. We drive our cars a lot and have had issues when using the same parts and hoses.

The fuel also tunes differently, typically I see engines wanting .5 size larger main jets than what we used to see when optimizing in the past.
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flatfour
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use sta-bil the marine formula
http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3CC6.aspx
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ethanol is horrible. Our SUV loses 30-40 miles per tank on E10 vs. Gasoline. It's another invisible "tax" on people, you think you are buying a gallon of fuel but you aren't, you are buying .8 Gallons.....
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ldsvwguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those Bastards....

So where do you guys find Sta-bil? Do I need to order it online? Can i buy it at Wally-World, O'Reilly, or Auto-Zone?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a gas station that sells pure gasoline, so I buy all fuel there. It's a Shell station, FWIW.
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neil68
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: ethanol Reply with quote

We've had 10% ethanol for sale for many years in Canada. The 10% blend being sold here does not affect rubber fuel lines, etc, as it was specifically blended to prevent these potential problems...manufacturers have to abide by strict guidelines. Perhaps it's different in the USA.

Been running E10 in my '68 Beetle without issue for several years and it has the added benefit of pulling water from the fuel tank, which is an issue with our weather extremes. Also, 10% ethanol blend is the only 94 octane pump gas we have available in my province, so it's a nice product for my 10.5:1 CR.

Regarding your wife's new car which runs on premium, again you should be fine. Our 02' turbo Passat uses E10 premium or mid-grade...nine years on the original motor and fuel lines.
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OLD VW NUT
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ethanol has 34% less energy per gallon than gasoline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Fuel_economy

It corrodes metal pipelines so can't be mixed and piped via regular petroleum pipelines - so it has to be transported via tankers - either truck or rail. Farmers get subsidies for growing it - politicians that support these subsidies get campaign funds from those farmers.

It is simply another way for farmers and politicians to gouge the American public for money. We pay for this corrupt process and get screwed in the process - all in the name of the environment and less dependence from foreign oil. Yeah right!

Want to be to be free of depending on foreign oil?

DRILL BABY DRILL !!!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll cast one more negative vote for ethanol fuel blends.

MPG in my Super and 914 dropped an average of 2 to 4 when the powers that be in my area mandated the use of E10. Since the switch was made, I've had to change German braided fuel hoses to modern FI-rated hose , increase the intervals with which I change fuel hoses, add fuel stabilizer with regularity(as stated in other posts), and replace the accelerator pump diaphragms and other consumables in my carbs, among other things. MPG in the modern, fuel injected vehicles of friends and family has dropped an average of 3-5 with the use of E10. In my experience, the use of E10 in my older vehicles costs more in terms of time, money, and MPG. Given the choice, I'd never select E10, E15, etc. over ethanol-free gasoline. My friends, family, and self hate the stuff.
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GDOG57
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I found a gas station that sells pure gasoline, so I buy all fuel there. It's a Shell station, FWIW.


Does you no good if you live in a state that has no eth-free gas stations.
Check here for your state:
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=AZ
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ethanol blended fuel (10%) is all that has been available in the Chicago area for the last 15 years. I run it in all my vehicles from vintage VW's to vintage American muscle cars and Hot rods. I have not seen any issues as far as the fuel causing mechanical problems. Yes, the fuel economy drops, but it's all that is available.
They are in the process of attempting to up the Ethanol percentage. I'm sure it will be another one of the laws that are passed without telling the people that it affects.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just depends on your point of view
It runs just fine in my webers and dells, might even run a hare cooler, so I have no beef with E10.

People who are only driving their vw's a few times a month need to pick up some "stabil", and put some in your lawnmower and small engines too.
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Eaallred
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the stuff myself.

You just have to tune/adjust your engine to run it.

My 12 second naturally asperated street bug gets a legitimate 40 miles per gallon while driving 70 miles per hour on E10 fuel from the pump. And it runs cooler than 100% gasoline too.

I've also pumped a LOT of ethanol through my engine over the last 4 years and have had ZERO problems with it. I've had no wear, corrosion, or anything else that others say it can cause.

Now, if you start running E10 without making any changes to cope with it, then it's your own fault that you are having negative results with it IMHO. If you have old fuel lines, or a neverbeencleanedoutbefore fuel tank, the ethanol will cause you problems. But the root cause is niglect.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is much cheaper to pay .10-.15 more for a gallon of real gas the to get he ethanol crap and spend $5 for an additive. Lucky for me the corner gas station carries 100% gas.
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