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No start, just cranks
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: No start, just cranks Reply with quote

I've scoured the forums to different posts and tried a ton of things

keep in mind I know there are quite a lot of posts and threads with problems, its just I feel my van in particular is being a huge pain. (I know we've all been there)

I have a 1990 Vanagon 2.1 no westy, just jump seats etc.

It cranks over fine, fuel pump primes, and spark plugs smell a lot like fuel (a lot of cranks and no start)

Is there a thread to go over a trouble shooting procedure to check? If all injectors are bad could it just not even sputter?

when I pull a plug and crank it there isn't any spark, but the van did start once or twice about a month ago. now it won't at all

My ideas?
-ignition switch? could that keep it from getting any spark? distributor looks new. so is the coil.

-injectors? could one faulty injector be this much of a problem?


OH and the ICV just buzzes quite loud when i turn the key to on. could a faulty one of these prevent a start such as this?

Thank you guys!
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levi
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First couple things I would check:

Grounds, like the tranny to frame one can get corroded, and at a flaps, a ground to replace it is only about 5 bucks and 5 minutes.

Air leakage. Just yesterday I had the same problem as you. This morning I checked my lines and a clamp leading to the afm was loose, letting in a ton of air. Although I have a suby the principal is the same. Lots of other possibilities.
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levi wrote:
First couple things I would check:

Grounds, like the tranny to frame one can get corroded, and at a flaps, a ground to replace it is only about 5 bucks and 5 minutes.

Air leakage. Just yesterday I had the same problem as you. This morning I checked my lines and a clamp leading to the afm was loose, letting in a ton of air. Although I have a suby the principal is the same. Lots of other possibilities.


interesting, ill check the AFM. which clamp on which line perhaps?

I changed out all the grounds, the two undernearth near the bellhousing, the ground off the left head to the body and the one under to the right (when looking down) sorry for not mentioning.

my next idea is looking at anything suspicious near the starter...


thank you though!!
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1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
Dogpilot wrote:
Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: No start, just cranks Reply with quote

Stockurai wrote:
...when I pull a plug and crank it there isn't any spark...


Well I'm no Tesla, but I think if there is no sparkee there will be no runee.

Seems time to verify the various components of the ignition system. I would probably begin with a visual confirmation that everything is connected then try a spare coil just because that's a quick & easy thing to rule in or out. Then on from there.
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plummerdesign
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This happened to me. It was a loose wire at the Hall relay. The wires were set into their push-on connector with rubber boots. The rubber is not-so-good some 25-30 years later.
Just check where they push up into the relay box for a loose one. Could be the culprit.
.
How was it fixed? I cleaned and reset all of the wires into the connector and then sealed them with Liquid Tape (this stuff works great to restore/replace rotten fuel injector boots too!...available at Home Depot)
Cheers,
Jeffery
.
(Westfalia camping/travel videos at YouTube link below)
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funagon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like no spark. Look for a problem with ignition/electrical.

Check the two relays in the black box above the coil. If the relays or wiring into the box have a poor connection it will prevent the van from starting. Try re-inserting the relays.
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ShultzRoadHouse
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been experiencing the same exact problem, after replacing the battery, alternator, ignition coil, spark plugs, grounds, I started to check the wires at the hall unit and aslo checked the digital idle stabilizer and the other box next to it. II believe the problem is with one of these units. I am ordering these units tomorrow. After unpluging and reconnecting these the van fired right up. Good luck!
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShultzRoadHouse wrote:
I have been experiencing the same exact problem, after replacing the battery, alternator, ignition coil, spark plugs, grounds, I started to check the wires at the hall unit and aslo checked the digital idle stabilizer and the other box next to it. II believe the problem is with one of these units. I am ordering these units tomorrow. After unpluging and reconnecting these the van fired right up. Good luck!


I checked the connection; connecting into the hall sender int he disty and it seems all check.

Also checked the box above the coil and those all seem A-OK. When i was pulling them out though, it let of a huge PSSSZZT and some smoke, just from slowly pulling the relays out. but they still get power? They seemed okay though...

Also, as I stated I believe, How would I know if the Idle Stabilizer is busted? is this the digital idle stabilizer? It does this semi loud vibrating and buzzing sound when the key is on. Im going to start unplugging and trying a new battery.

Thanks! Also the alternator looks relatively new... same as the coil. Spark plugs look sketchy though but they cleaned fine.

Thank you guys for your help so far!
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1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
Dogpilot wrote:
Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character.
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funagon
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops! Best to disconnect battery ground (negative) cable before working on electronics!
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the hall unit, coil, connections in the black box are all good.

the hall relay looks safe too.

Here are some pictures and tell me what you think:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(turn your head to the right, this is the alternator terminals /\
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
Dogpilot wrote:
Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character.
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Perales
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change your fuel lines, those look original! Shocked
http://www.benplace.com/fuel_line.htm
Could also be bad spark plug wires. Especially the one to the coil. Try pulling them out and re-seating them. Are the wires feeling stiff or are they flexible? If this is a new to you van I would consider replacing the wires, plugs, cap and rotor. The on line vendors sell a tuneup kit.
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_977
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strawhouse
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option is wait until its getting dark out and get someone to crank over the engine. Get a spray bottle with some water in it and spray down the ignition system and watch for arcing. That has saved me a couple of times when I cant find a leak in the ignition system
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I need to do the fuel system next, my main goal was to get this running flawless before conquering that feat.

definitely no spark by the way guys.

strawhouse wrote:
Another option is wait until its getting dark out and get someone to crank over the engine. Get a spray bottle with some water in it and spray down the ignition system and watch for arcing. That has saved me a couple of times when I cant find a leak in the ignition system


Is this safe? It sounds like it'll work so ill try it anyways tho, thanks!
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1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
Dogpilot wrote:
Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character.
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

working on checking the ECU with some trial and error

but in the meantime! Exclamation

Does anyone have a diagram or a list of where all the grounds are that could be in question?

Very Happy
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1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
Dogpilot wrote:
Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character.
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Perales
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


for an '87, check your Bentley.
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letherer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stockurai wrote:
yeah I need to do the fuel system next, my main goal was to get this running flawless before conquering that feat.

definitely no spark by the way guys.

strawhouse wrote:
Another option is wait until its getting dark out and get someone to crank over the engine. Get a spray bottle with some water in it and spray down the ignition system and watch for arcing. That has saved me a couple of times when I cant find a leak in the ignition system


Is this safe? It sounds like it'll work so ill try it anyways tho, thanks!


No spark? I would bolt down your coil correctly. I don't know if that's what grounds it, but in your pic, it's not bolted to the frame.
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Stockurai
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No spark? I would bolt down your coil correctly. I don't know if that's what grounds it, but in your pic, it's not bolted to the frame.


Sorry, theres a bolt below the coil that is holding it there (hidden from view)

as an extra measure ill bolt it there too! thanks.


and thank you perales for the pic!
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1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
Dogpilot wrote:
Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character.
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letherer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stockurai wrote:
Quote:
No spark? I would bolt down your coil correctly. I don't know if that's what grounds it, but in your pic, it's not bolted to the frame.


Sorry, theres a bolt below the coil that is holding it there (hidden from view)

as an extra measure ill bolt it there too! thanks.


and thank you perales for the pic!
Have you checked for spark at the coil to make sure spark is getting to distributor? I know it's a new coil but who knows also, I would make sure your ignition switch is good, it's a cheap part and easy to change.
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Perales
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought...
That looks like a brand new distributor cap.
Are you sure it is the correct fit?

If by chance it is too tall, the rotor will not touch the contacts and ... no spark.
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strawhouse
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just keep in mind that even if youre getting a spark at the coil but its yellow/orange and it has a very low gap it wont produce enough spark for the distributor or the plugs. It needs to be bright blue/white and a nice arc gap
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