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War wagens
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joebug1956
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: War wagens Reply with quote

Saw these at work. Came from the ordinance museum from APG Maryland, they are closing the base and reopening it at Ft. Lee where I work.

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xeno
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: War wagens Reply with quote

joebug1956 wrote:
Saw these at work. Came from the ordinance museum from APG Maryland, they are closing the base and reopening it at Ft. Lee where I work.

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It's not so manly to faint... Shocked

Nice... Are they heading for DRMO?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where will they be on display? Id like to re allocate them to my garage Laughing
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Schwimmwagen shows why APG shouldn't have been trusted to keep lawn mowers let alone rare historical vehicles. Missmatched wheels, missing parts a spray job done by an idiot to include the roof canvas and tires, a license plate off a motorcycle, broken headlight. stripped dashboard, etc. Still at least it's in better condition than many of the rare and even prototype tanks they've kept rotting there. So sad to see important history neglected, especially history that cost the blood of forefathers.

Last edited by Kapt. Q on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Baron
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.

These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe.
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Baron wrote:
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.

These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe.


It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt. Q wrote:
Blue Baron wrote:
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.

These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe.


It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK.


Then STFU and go visit those museums.
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FASTBACKDON
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiggy wrote:
Kapt. Q wrote:
Blue Baron wrote:
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.

These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe.


It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK.


Then STFU and go visit those museums.

Thank you Wiggy.
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usariemen
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt. Q wrote:

... You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that ...


You will, believe me, you will.
Not often. But sometimes.
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiggy wrote:
Kapt. Q wrote:
Blue Baron wrote:
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.

These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe.


It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK.


Then STFU and go visit those museums.


Perhaps you see what I'm saying as an attack on America, but this is not the case, you have many fine museums, The Smithsonian Flight and Space Museum for one, probably the best in the world in it's field.
So what am I saying? That the vehicles and those who want to see and enjoy them deserve better. So for saying this you want me to 'STFU'?


Last edited by Kapt. Q on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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David
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope they're moved to a place where the general public can see them on display!
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Vealmonkey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At APG, they were in a place where the general public could see them. I saw them many times. The kubel and schwimmer were in a couple different displays at one time or another and both were inside the ordinance museum. Much better treatment than the tanks. At one time, Aberdeen had a live demonstration of what the tanks would on a field that had grandstands lining both sides of the field. The had WW1 tanks all the way up to the modern day and they did live fire demonstrations on most of them. The display of the worlds firearms there is/was absolutely incredible.
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volksaddict
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's awesome. Imagine seeing a kubel and shwimm at your work Shocked Thanks for sharing.
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merlin42
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both vehicles were captured in North Africa during WW2. The Kubel at the time of capture was missing two doors and headlights. You can see the Kubel in a 1944 Popular Science article being tested at Aberdeen if you go to the KDF 82E Archives at hansonmechanical.com Those little headlights were put on by the US Army during WW2.

I know the curator who is dealing with the move. If I have any updates on the vehicles and their display I will post. Currently I know of no plans to do any further restoration to them. Interestingly the Schwimmer has its original roof from WW2. The horrible paint over was probably done back in the 1960's or 1970's. I had a chance to evaluate these vehicles before their move.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Both vehicles were captured in North Africa during WW2"

My dad worked in the Motorpool in NorthAfrica under Rommel in WW2 (he's German). I'd like to think it might have been possible that he did some maintenance work on either one... Surprised

Unfortunately he passed away in 1980, long before I was actively interested in old VWs. Though he did demonstrate how he and a couple other soldiers were able to turn a Kuebel around if it did not run/could not roll... yep, we tried it on my '60 Beetle in the mid 70's and it worked!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merlin42 wrote:
Both vehicles were captured in North Africa during WW2.
Maybe the Kubel was, but no way for the Schwimmer. Schwimmers weren't used in N.A. Why would they send an amphibious vehicle to a place without water?
That particular Schwimmer is a late 43/early 44. Long after Germany withdrew from N.A.
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: War wagens Reply with quote

joebug1956 wrote:
Saw these at work. Came from the ordinance museum from APG Maryland, they are closing the base and reopening it at Ft. Lee where I work.
You should tell them to swap one front wheel/tire from the Kubel to the Schwimmer. That should better match up the tires on the Kubel. Then tell them to NEVER put the Schwimmer in 4 wheel drive with those mismatched tires.
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merlin42
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The records I have show the Kubel coming from North Africa, as for the Schwimm that is just what is was told. Honestly I was wondering the same thing.
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J.Glo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: War wagens Reply with quote

joebug1956 wrote:


Nice... Are they heading for DRMO?


if those go to drmo heads should roll
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt. Q wrote:
It's your nations heritage, not mine.
I believe our two nations were allies.

At any rate, field changes can be considered provenance, especially when there's photographic evidence to back them up. I remember seeing a photo of a captured Kubelwagen missing doors, and with little headlights like these in Dan Post's Volkswagen Nine Lives Later. Could it be the same car?
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