Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
gas smell
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
debbiej
Samba Member


Joined: December 14, 2008
Posts: 1541
Location: las cruces, nm
debbiej is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject: gas smell Reply with quote

as we filled up on the way out of town some gas leaked on the ground. we pulled away and looked under the van, it seemed to be coming from one of the tubes to the expansion tank on the passenger side. to be sure, we checked all the fuel lines in the engine area and going to the fuel filters and pump. no leaks anywhere. yet the whole trip I'd keep getting whiffs of gas. taking a turn or hitting a bump, I'd smell gas. never any puddles or drips, but one of those lines somewhere must be leaking either fumes or gas. I've read the threads here on the lines, gromets, tanks, gaskets etc. it seems like a real pain to track this down. any words of wisdom?
based on the way it leaks and smells, any hints on what to check first?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
snowsyncro
Samba Member


Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1474
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
snowsyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a test procedure in Bentley. Disconnect the vent line to the charcoal cannister, then pressurize (to 1.3 in of Hg I think), then wait five minutes. If pressure drops to 1 inch of Hg, that is too much. Soap test on all seals (indicated in Bentley) to find the leaking seal(s).

I was just looking at that last night, as I am doing a 2WD gas tank refurb.

RonC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pioneer1
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Ontario Canada
pioneer1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: fuel Reply with quote

Debbie: have you done any work to the lines since you bought your Westy? The lines that feed the overflow tank can get brittle. The overflow tank can also be a victim of what the tire treads throw up at it- resulting in small cracks,holes. On the top of the overflow there is a grommet as well that could allow the fumes to escape. Probably a good course of action would be not to overfill the tank until you are done the season.
Warning:Removing the overflow tanks is easy but it's a bear of a job getting it back into position and they are only available used.
_________________
"Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"

'85 Porsche 911 Targa

'76 Westfalia project
79 Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
GBA 88West LA
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1278
Location: New Hampshire
GBA 88West LA is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

usually if its just a simple vent problem, cracked vent lines or seals at top of expansion tank, the smell doesnt continue, it goes away shortly after you start driving and start to consume the gas, you indicated the smell is consistent the whole time regardless of gas level in tank...you prob need to drop the tank and do a complete re hab, new crossover, new vent lines, gas tank seal kit , you may want to do just the vent lines and reseal the expansion tanks and see if that helps, if not you have to drop the tank and finish the job Wink
_________________
88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 6514
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies for the threadjacking Very Happy , but I've got a question for you folks in-the-know:

Would these expansion tank lines be the originals
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
??

My van has a fuel vapor issue as well, but it's not a constant one. I plan to replace those lines no matter the answer, but I'm just curious if those happen to be the original lines, or if they are replacements from years past (they are braided hoses with no clamps, as you can see).
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Perales
Samba Member


Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2038
Location: Montreal
Perales is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those lines (in the photo) are a likely suspect to fuel smell when you fill up. They are originally braided but with clamps. They tend to crack and leak but will only usually cause a smell just after a fill-up. They are an easy do-it-yourself fix. Use 1/4" fuel line (braided is not necessary) and use clamps. The full repair should take about ten minutes. You will probably be surprised at how cracked they are when you remove them. (Don't over-tighten the clamps) There are two expansion tanks to deal with (four small sections of hose), one tank in each front wheel well. Two feet of 1/4" hose and 8 clamps should do the whole job.
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 6514
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perales wrote:
Those lines (in the photo) are a likely suspect to fuel smell when you fill up. They are originally braided but with clamps.


I do get the fill-up vapors and occasionally after parking it. I suspected they might be the original lines. Now I'm wondering where the clamps went wandering off to. Think Thanks for the info! 1/4" fuel hose and clamps are on my shopping list!
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Timwhy
Samba Member


Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 3546
Location: Maine
Timwhy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful taking those expansion tank lines off, you don't want to break off a nipple!

Also zip ties work just as well as clamps, as they are not under any real pressure .
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
debbiej
Samba Member


Joined: December 14, 2008
Posts: 1541
Location: las cruces, nm
debbiej is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info. my lines are much thinner, and it looks like the gas is dripping out from somewhere above the tank then down the line. we have replaced the fuel lines in the engine bay, have replaced the fuel filter and pump and checked the lines going back to the engine. but have done nothing to the little lines around the tank. so that is the task for tomorrow. guess I have to get the bentley back from my dad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dhaavers
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 6402
Location: NE MN (http://g.co/maps/zt72q)
dhaavers is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully you'll catch it on the easier small lines.
If not, don't overlook the o-ring for the sender.
You'll have to drop the tank for that one.
(Ask me how I know...)

Wink
_________________
86 White Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"

<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Timwhy
Samba Member


Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 3546
Location: Maine
Timwhy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These lines do not need FI hose as they are after the fuel pump on the return side, so not pressureized.
As I stated earlier they also do not need clamps to keep them on , just zip ties.
Also when removing them you should cut a verticat slit in them at the nipple, so not to
break that nipple off. The hose can adhear itself to the nipple and trying to pull it off
can result in something broken.

Good luck and remember to raise your Westy to drop the tank, if you want to take the
tank out for inspection.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rodknock
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 516
Location: Boulder CO
Rodknock is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the driver's side, one of the hard plastic vent lines to the expansion tank has a sharp bend. These hard plastic lines tend to split at this sharp bend. Fill up and drive around, then stop and jump out and look for wet gas seeping at these lines with a flashlight. You may be able to replace them without dropping the fuel tank or the expansion tanks. I avoided removing my expansion tanks for fear of breaking one of them. I had also replaced my gas tank and all the other lines previously, so it came down to these hard plastic ones.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
jimeg
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 510
Location: PNW
jimeg is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just dropped and resealed my tank recently. At my first fill up, I had gas leak out of the top of tank - from the two grommets for the cross over tube. The new grommets from Go Westy do not work with the old cross over tube fittings. I was able to replace the crossover tube and grommets without dropping the tank again. You can access them through the wheel wells. I used gas resistant RTV on all of my grommets too. You may want to just drop the tank and replace everything, since it is only a matter of time before the other seals fail as well.

Here is a great tutorial with photos on how to reseal your tank.

http://www.kayakwesty.com/gastank.html
_________________
1986 Root Beer Syncro Tin Top....so many plans.

Here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578490
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jacklndn
Samba Member


Joined: June 23, 2011
Posts: 121
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
jacklndn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Braided and rubber line Reply with quote

Found this thread just in time. I purchased one foot of rubber hose today, and was going to ask if it's OK to replace the braid with rubber, as my 86 has one of each!

Just to add to the knowledge base should anyone else encounter a similar set, here is a photo of the mixed tubes. The white arrows indicate where the liquid gasoline drips out after a total fill up. The drips and fumes only last a few minutes, and if I drive just a few miles they seem to be gone.

I'll be replacing the line this weekend, and raising a complete tank reseal way up the to-do list with my mechanic. Some of those stories scare the pizaza out of a guy!

I'm planning on using standard worm gear hose clamps. Any problem with those for this application?

Thank you in advance for any input.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
copescobra
Samba Member


Joined: February 14, 2011
Posts: 66
Location: Washington State
copescobra is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had gas smell mostly when filling up and had leaking as well. Turned out to be something to do with the fuel sending unit, either plastic or rubber was cracked or not fitting properly. Did not see that mentioned and thought I would share my problem and what it turned out to be.
_________________
1987 Westy Camper
1970 Boss 302
1965 Sunbeam Tiger
2000 Type R Integra
1967 Alfa Duetto
1972 BMW Tii
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
dhaavers
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 6402
Location: NE MN (http://g.co/maps/zt72q)
dhaavers is online now 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

copescobra wrote:
...something to do with the fuel sending unit...rubber was cracked or not fitting properly...Did not see that mentioned ...

Good point! (Refer to my Wed. post if you like)

Please note: that sender o-ring recommends dry graphite for lubrication on install; otherwise
you're likely to leave it twisted or damaged & then you'll need to drop the tank again real soon...

Happy trails!
_________________
86 White Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"

<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB