Getting ride of that nasty yellow foam

[Mr Whippy]

Hi,

That foam VW decided to inject behind the rear window, anyone know a good way of removing it? apart from cutting open the panel...

It's a real pita and has caused some rusting (holes) which I can see looking up from the engine bay and I want to remove it all so I can deal with the rust. Access is pretty poor and so far my attempts at dissolving it with solvents has done nothing. Was hoping it would be like polystyrene and just melt away at the first sign of some thinners but nope just turned a bit soft and still would not come out with vigorous poking, I can see it being a real problem in the future if I don't deal with it now.

Any idea's, cheers

[alex857]

Hi,
normally the foam is not the reason for rust because it stays dry, but it traps water e.g. from a sliding roof.

The way to remove it usually is to work with a brush tool on a drilling machine. Beware of the fact that the car without foam will be really loud, so replace it with something else after the rust repair.

Good luck and look here:

http://www.gwd-weiser.de/?page_id=158

Alex

[noob]

i took a screw driver to mine and carefully chipped away at it.

[Mr Whippy]

[Danpa]

I used a wire coat hanger with a pointed hook bent into the end. Sort of like a fish hook barb, so it can stab through the foam but grab it when you try to pull it out. I also slightly bent over the little sheetmetal tabs in the engine compartment so I could get my long skinny arm up there.

[kme9418]

I was just chipping that out yesterday with a 2 foot long pry bar little by little. I got most of it scraped out. I don't have any rust issues in that area but used this to protect it:

Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator with a 2' extension nozzle

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-rust-encapsulator-w-ext-nozzle-black.html

It sprays a great "sprinkler" pattern that covers the entire inside of that area. If you already have rust bubbles coming through the body, you're screwed. Your car needs major surgery to fix it from the inside of the panel.
_________________
KME9418
1969 VW Beetle

[stasher1]

[beetlenut]

Read em and weep!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437975&highlight=foam

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=480132&highlight=foam

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=404405&highlight=foam++pillar
_________________
scrapyards are for quitters
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[Big DanT]

Curious if anyone has tried to dissolve the foam with acetone? I used to use it in small qauntities when foaming custom ski boots to remove a spot that recieved too much foam during the fitting proccess. Acetone hates most kind of foam.
Use caution and lots of ventilation.

[Mr Whippy]

cheers guys for those depressing links

there's loads of that stuff in there! don't fancy cutting open the car just to extract some foam, it's not something I want to do just yet.

Going to pull out some foam and try some other thinners and let you know if I find something that can melt it.

Thanks

[jwold]

I remember reading on a thread someone asking about dissolving it, I don't recall it working. I think laborious scraping is about the best way so far.

[Nepenthe88]

Hey Mr. Whippy...

Beetlenut posted a link to my "All about FOAM" post. I think if you read thru it you'll learn that the foam gets in all sorts of places cause it was sprayed in... places you just CAN'T get to without a bigger hole. There's just no way to get to it, AND... I don't know if you want to go poking around in there too much. if you happen to hit the rope gasket which seals the inside metal piece of the crescent vent to the body of the car then you run the risk of opening up a hole to the outside which will allow water in when you drive in the rain
...
which means all you've succeeded in doing is (possibly) making a larger cavity for water to sit inside of. And that's just gonna get you more rust. I say-- if you still want to get rid of the foam-- cut the car open on the inside (it gets hidden behind the headliner) and scoop it out. Do it "right" You'll thank yourself later! Especially when you decide you want to re-insulate the area with a better product. I suggest ice and water shield with some dynamat type product sandwiched between (for various reasons explained in the post). Cause if you don't re-insulate the cavity things ret REAL loud real quick

and you run the risk of sucking dirty engine air into the cabin.

Good luck and keep us posted!!
_________________
a Black & Blue Su-BUS-aroo

Follow my adventures in the GoWAND'RLoST bus on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/gowandrlost/

[Danpa]

I keep reading that it's really loud without the foam. When did VW start putting it there?

Were the earlier bugs (without the foam) REALLY loud inside, or was there something else used for noise reduction?

I don't recall my 67 having it, but that was a long time ago. And it was loud inside anyway because of a bad tranny, that sounded like a moaning cow over 40 mph.

[Joel]

People are over-dramatising it.

yes it's abit louder than normal but no need to crack out the ear plugs.
They started doing it in 71 in most markets not just as a noise thing but also to prevent dust and fumes entering the cabin.

The beetles before 71 had little packages of insulation sewn up in left over headliner material shoved up in there.

I'm lucky I live in a dryish climate, I've left all the foam alone in mine and have no rust issues but the coat hanger wire with a hook on the end works well to remove it, which I've had to do in other bugs of mine.
_________________
Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle

[Mr Whippy]

Hi,

Thanks, I have no vents behind the rear window on my car so that is not an issue. The foam is not as all over the place as some of the cars I've seen so far, non behind the headliner or the engine bulkhead, only above the rear arch.

I used some enamel thinners on some of the foam last night and it changes it to a very weak and soft foam that has no strength. I'm thinking of injecting the thinners through the factory holes inside as the thinner just soaks in like a sponge very well.

If I do that I think it will be very easy to remove, especially with the bottle cleaner on an electric drill idea.

Will let you know if this works.

Ta

[Danpa]

Keep us posted as to how well it works. I have almost all of mine out but there are still small pieces and kind of a foam film stuck to the walls that I'd like to get out. BTW, I didn't cut holes for access, going with a "late 1200" style headliner and it's all going to be finish painted inside. Don't need MORE bodywork unless it's absolutely unavoidable.
My plan then is to put some OSPHO in a wand type bug sprayer and get the areas all covered inside. Maybe try paint this way too.

As far as the sound deadining, after cleaning and painting, how about draping some heavy plastic sheet over something to form a "baglike cavity",insert it up into the area, remove the "installation tool" and then fill the bag with foam. Then trim as much of the remaining plastic away and tuck it up and out of sight. The sound and smells would be blocked but the metal would be protected in case any moisture gets into the foam.

What do you guys think?

[mtdorajohn]

here is how I got rid of mine.

Take the side panels out from each side of the back seat. Open the trunk lid.

using a coat hanger or similar; poke into the foam from the front void area under the side windows. Poke into the foam from the top corners of the engine area.

take a wet-dry vacuum and blow the foam out from the void area.

messy, but it works.

[Mr Whippy]

all done turned out to be very easy to remove without much work. First I cut off the little tabs at the top of the engine bay (you could just bend them out the way) . Then I got a length of silversteel and bent the end as in the photo and attached it to my drill. After about an hour of working it into the spaces I'd chopped up the foam to bits with little effort. Mind to also put it right up in the other channel that runs along the side of the rear window. On my car there is two foam injection holes on each side to do different cavity's. As you can see from the pictures the panels where rusting under the foam, now I can get them treated and stop this.

Note that this is a very loud process ! But no damage is done to the panels, though I used a drill with a ratchet so that if the wire got stuck it just clicks. A slow speed works better than fast as slow lets the wire bounce about inside knocking the foam off better.

Hope this is some help

Right side before

Wire thing on drill

Left side after

Right side after

All that nasty foam removed

[/quote]

[Moodyd]

Thanks Whippy!!!, you just saved me some unnecessary cutting and welding, already cut-out drivers side (inside metal), just wish I would have waited a week.. I used the method you described for the passenger side and it worked great. I have a little more foam removal to go and should be all set…….Thanks again,

[Mr Whippy]

oh sorry I took so long to sort this on my car, may have saved some work on your's

Didn't fancy any more cutting and welding on my car, had enough of that already