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Brian
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

I might have some, let me check my stash.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
I might have some, let me check my stash.


Thanks Brian.

I was reading your thread and came across this ...

AZ-BUG wrote:
got a flat... too lazy to use a jack!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Do you run boots on the car now ? Are they supposed to come with boots when you buy them new ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

I have some questions

I'm new to this, so bear with me. What I'm looking for (don't have a bug yet), or to do is the cut/turn up front, and spline rotation suspension "lift" in the rear.

My understanding is that's the suspension part of it, and the shocks are for stability and vibration mitigation etc... shock absorbers.

So if a guy does coil-overs, is that an acceptable (provided the correct size/strength is used) replacement for the torsion bar suspension? Any links showing what exactly is involved?

How much travel can you get before you need to do a tube frame build or serious modification to the chassis?

What does the long travel suspension allow for in vehicle capability? Put another way, what type of terrain or driving requires it?

I'm looking for a road-worthy vehicle that I can take on the local trails in the grasslands and Black Hills, occasionally going fully off-road in the grasslands (it's fairly mild terrain). I'm just not entirely certain on how far I should be aiming to go.

Thanks for any insight.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

HeyWatchThis wrote:
I have some questions

I'm new to this, so bear with me. What I'm looking for (don't have a bug yet), or to do is the cut/turn up front, and spline rotation suspension "lift" in the rear.

My understanding is that's the suspension part of it, and the shocks are for stability and vibration mitigation etc... shock absorbers.

So if a guy does coil-overs, is that an acceptable (provided the correct size/strength is used) replacement for the torsion bar suspension? Any links showing what exactly is involved?

How much travel can you get before you need to do a tube frame build or serious modification to the chassis?

What does the long travel suspension allow for in vehicle capability? Put another way, what type of terrain or driving requires it?

I'm looking for a road-worthy vehicle that I can take on the local trails in the grasslands and Black Hills, occasionally going fully off-road in the grasslands (it's fairly mild terrain). I'm just not entirely certain on how far I should be aiming to go.

Thanks for any insight.


"REAL" coilovers, like King, F-O-A, Fox, Sway-A-Way, etc., as opposed to the crappy EMPI coilovers, can entirely replace the torsion bars front and rear.

The EMPIs are intended to serve as "helper" springs for stock torsions that only need to be adjusted as you listed above. The shock absorbers inside their coils are really crummy. The springs are OK, but the chrome tends to rust very quickly. Vastly better shock absorbers from other companies, like KYB, Rancho, Pro-Comp, Bilstein, etc., that fit on the stock mounts will give a much better ride and will serve quite well for a relatively basic offroad VW.

For getting started, it makes very good sense to start with a simple, basic Bug or buggy and work your way up to the fancy go-fast stuff. Try out the basic stuff and if you often exceed the capabilities of what you have, then step up to more expensive and fancier.

Keep in mind that the 1st Mexican 1000 (later called the Baja 1000) was won by a Meyers Manx with stone stock VW swingaxle suspension with Gabriel (IIRC) non-gas street shocks on the stock mounts. The travel was stock. The beam was NOT cut & turned, let alone with adjusters or wider beam or any other modifications. The rear torsion bars were not re-indexed from stock. It didn't have King rebuildable shocks. It didn't have a tube frame. It didn't have rack & pinion steering. Offroad race car suspension was basically stock linkpin and swingaxle for another 10 years.

So "what type of terrain or driving requires it (long travel suspension)?"

When you really cannot get through the trails and someone with longer travel suspension can. When you are willing to spend enough money and effort to upgrade.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

That's kind of what I was thinking. Thank you for the reply.

It's easy to fall into the rabbit hole and think "well if I'm going XXX far, I might as well YYY"-- which gets rapidly confusing when you're brand new to something. Stepping away from the "cool guy" mentality, I think the basic mods should do fine for the vast majority of what I'd like to do.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Shock combo questions on ball joint beam.

Stock ball joint beam. Is there an extended shock tower that will go on it? What amount of travel will it have with a good shock and stops? Not looking for anything amazing just rebuilding an old dune buggy. What is a good shock for this application?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

The stock shock towers on a ball joint beam will provide ALL of the travel that the ball joint arms and joints can handle. Longer shock towers won't help any. There are folks who occasionally build bigger shock towers on ball joint beams, but they allow bigger shocks with no more wheel travel. And if you DO put on bigger towers, you had BETTER DAMNED WELL put on travel stops or you won't go very far at all before you tear the ball joints apart. The MOST you're gonna get out of a ball joint front end is about 6". There are ball joints which have been clearanced to allow a little more angle and in theory, more travel. But they are weakened in the process and break VERY easily. I don't recommend them for street use, let alone offroad.

For more travel, install a conversion beam to convert it to link pin. Link pin and ball joint beams have the tubes different distance apart and you can't just bolt a link pin beam on a ball joint frame. Link pin arms don't fit into ball joint beam tubes that are different size tube. You can make your own conversion beam, or BugZila sells them with bigger towers.

Then after converting to link pin, you can get up to 10.25" of wheel travel like me with stock arms and 8" or 10" shocks. Or with bigger arms you can get as much as 15" of travel out of it.

Which shocks????
Speed costs money! How fast can you afford to go?

You could have a crap load of fun in a simple buggy with Gabriel or Monroe shocks from a wrecking yard. Or, as you step up the $$ you get better and better shocks so you can go faster

Show us some pics of what the car is and tell us where you want to play with it and maybe we can help you out with some more specific answers..
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm just looking for reliable. Nothing crazy. Just having fun with the family at Silver lake sand dunes in Mears michigan. If it doesn't need a link pin beam to make it do what I want I'll run the ball joint beam. Just wanted a good shock. [/img]
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

OK.

Then for that, a KYB Gas-A-Just for the front of a stock Bug 1966-1979 would be my recommendation.

King and Fox make rebuildable shocks for Class 9 and Class 11 racers to fit right on your ball joint towers. They will provide the best ride, but at a price.
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bikesndbugs
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

https://www.kybshocksonline.com/product.aspx?zpid=1533

would these fit on a lifted linkpin my mount to mount length is 16 inches
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Those shocks are KYB's cheapest. They dampen like stock shocks. But they're made way better than most any car company's stock shocks.

Still, they're double tube. stock replacement. They're like Monroe or Gabriel street shocks.

They're NOT offroad shocks.

When you say "lifted link pin"...
- Where are the shocks mounted to the towers? Are the towers stock height? 8"? 10"? ?????
- Where are the shocks mounted to the trailing arms? Stock mounts? Extended mount near the lower link pin? Longer aftermarket arms?
- How much travel do you have the stops set at?

There are more possibilities. Each of the above and each of those not listed all affect how long the shocks need to be. And compressed length is as important as extended length.

Your question is like going to the butcher counter at the market and asking "How much does meat cost?"
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

dustymojave wrote:
Those shocks are KYB's cheapest. They dampen like stock shocks. But they're made way better than most any car company's stock shocks.

Still, they're double tube. stock replacement. They're like Monroe or Gabriel street shocks.

They're NOT offroad shocks.

When you say "lifted link pin"...
- Where are the shocks mounted to the towers? Are the towers stock height? 8"? 10"? ?????
- Where are the shocks mounted to the trailing arms? Stock mounts? Extended mount near the lower link pin? Longer aftermarket arms?
- How much travel do you have the stops set at?

There are more possibilities. Each of the above and each of those not listed all affect how long the shocks need to be. And compressed length is as important as extended length.

Your question is like going to the butcher counter at the market and asking "How much does meat cost?"


sorry dusty its a stock link pin beam stock trailing arm with the stops cut off cut and turned a whole lot so when off the car you couldnt even get a shock on becuase the trailing arm would be in the way. the front is already really stiff i tried bouncing on it and it didnt budge. no limiters what will be the limiter is the shock sharft cover hitting the lower arm. yeah im aware thats horrible for it thats why i want cheap ones untill i can get nicer shocks and taller towers
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Hey so I've been slowly working on a 58 "Baja" project car. It has stock suspension still. My rear tires hit my fenders tho. I figured I would do some trimming on the fenders but would like a little more clearence. So what shocks would work best ? It will be driving on the road and maybe some very light off-roading. Any input welcome
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

I ran KYB Gas Adjusts shocks on the rear of my baja, keeps the rear end up pretty well for off road use.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

58slider wrote:
Hey so I've been slowly working on a 58 "Baja" project car. It has stock suspension still. My rear tires hit my fenders tho. I figured I would do some trimming on the fenders but would like a little more clearence. So what shocks would work best ? It will be driving on the road and maybe some very light off-roading. Any input welcome


Unless you're using the Baja Bug on the show car circuit, tire clearance is not a function of ride height. Suspension moves. Roads have bumps, even paved ones. The 1st time I bottomed out my 58 Baja Bug was when it was still stock and I hit a pothole in the streets of LA. Since I made it into a Baja, the rear tires have always rubbed on the inner fender panels. Tire diameter is the major limiting factor in up travel of the suspension.

Which shocks doesn't make a difference in what will rub.

3x3 rear arms move the tires far enough outboard that the inner fender panel is no longer an obstacle.

With stock suspension with long swing axles, even 215-75 tires rub.

I suggest KYB Gas-A-Just shocks. I used KYB #5529 shocks all around on my 58 for years when it was still swingaxle. My dad drove it to work 45 miles each way across LA on the freeways like that for many of those years. And it got used offroad on weekends. I had them on my stock 67 Bug that I drove on the freeways across LA to and from work for nearly 400 thousand miles. They work fine for both.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


how would i mount these could i do a tube back from the upperbeam tube and a tube back from the lower beam tube meeting at the mount? would this be too weak?

i still have a stock tank so its really tight up front.

any suggestions?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Tube mounts are one option.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Plate mounts like what most now know as Warrior style works too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Or the extended stock towers that Vanapple built for his buggy.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I once built a set of towers for a buggy with 1.5" x .095 tube welded to the top of stock towers that had been cut off an inch above the top tube. Added a 1" x .065 stiffener from the top back of the 1.5" down to the bottom back of the stock tower behind the bottom tube, and another 1" diagonal over to the body mount boss on top of the factory beam clamps. I don't have any pics of that setup though.

If you use 8" travel shocks with stock lower mounts on the arms, or if you use 10" travel shocks with extended mounts near the link pin on the lower arm, then the upper shock mount boss should be 12" above the top of the upper beam tube. So-called 8" warrior style towers fit this.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Quick question:

I've got some Sway-A-Way Race Runners that came with a car I recently purchased:

F & R 2.5 bypass coil overs
F & R 2.5 coil over bypass

They are about 15 years old (pretty light use, though), and I'm going to go thru them and do a re-build. While I have them torn down, I would like to re-finish them.

What are my options (polish and re-zinc, paint, powder coat, etc)?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

Previously discussed my idea of bus shocks on a bug for a stiffer vaulving at a still cheap price.

Dusty had mentiones that they are 2 inches longer. http://www.jbugs.com/product/KG5529.html

Here it lists swing axle bus and having the same shock size so biksteins for an early bus should work. Giving me the desired stiffer vaulving. I hope will help with bigger torsions and added cage weight.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: SHOCKS SHOCKS SHOCKS Reply with quote

bikesndbugs wrote:
Previously discussed my idea of bus shocks on a bug for a stiffer vaulving at a still cheap price.

Dusty had mentiones that they are 2 inches longer. http://www.jbugs.com/product/KG5529.html

Here it lists swing axle bus and having the same shock size so biksteins for an early bus should work. Giving me the desired stiffer vaulving. I hope will help with bigger torsions and added cage weight.


not sure about the sizing but being bus shocks may not necessarily mean "stiffer" valving.

My bilsteins on the rear , i think they are 5600's, seem much softer on slow leaning turns but are stiffer on hard turns or heavy fast bumps. Better shocks like bilstein or fox may be more dynamic in their reaction to different terrain. Where as a KYB gas shock in my experience is not so dynamic but "stiffer" all the time. some food for thought
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