Valves & Timing ?

[OhChit]

We picked up a 1.9 Van with said engine rebuilt about 25k ago, looking its clear that the engine has been torn down, PO bought it this way and didn't know much. I'm fighting the mysterious hunting idle issues. Engines Idles at about 1400 and surges to 1700 Reguardless what I try same issue. Didn't try timing yet because of the hi idle. The large screw in the throttle body is screwed in all the way and still a high idle and surging about 300 RPM's.. After fighting and sorting through every valcumn leak source, thought that we'd try timing it anyway. The timing was way off, and turning the distributor made no rear changes. Replaced new all the normal tuneup parts, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, O2, etc.

Thought that we'd try swapping out the Distributor and that's when we noticed that on three other 1.9's that we have here the vacumn can on the side of the distributor is facing the area by the fuel regulator, even the bently shows it facing that direction.. But on this one it runs best where it almost touches the water pump belt and it's pointed more towards the crank pully then the fuel regulator maybe 90 degrees clockwise from where it normally sits. Actually it seems like we need to turn it more that same direction but it begins to touch the water pump belt. Guessing that either the Cam or Dist shaft is off about 10-15+ degrees..

Could this be the cause of my hunting idle, could the cam teeth had been setup wrong.. Adjusted and readjusted the valves, trying all variations of but when I set the valves lash losely it did seem to run a little better but then again I couldn't handle hearing the valve chatter any longer so I snugged them down again with 2 truns of pre-load. The engine doesn't sputter from the intake, or exhaust, I'm just thinking that the Cam timing may have been set off a tooth or two

Perhaps it's just that the Distributor / Cam drive shaft is set wrong?

Any thoughts, or suggestions..

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Fast Cars, and Slow Women Makes me DrooL.

[Wildthings]

Set your timing at full mechanical advance: 28° BTDC at 3800+/- rpms, hoses off and the plugs to the idle stabilizer shorted together.

So long as you can set your timing the clocking of the distributor drive doesn't matter.

[OhChit]

I think that's the problem I can't move the dist much further because it's hitting the V Belt.. Both Distributors I tried do the same.
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Fast Cars, and Slow Women Makes me DrooL.

[Wildthings]

[Ahwahnee]

I think one possibility (since having that Throttle Body screw all-in doesn't lower the idle) might be a lot of wear in the throttle body leaving a large gap between the plate and the body.

In any case, hunting idle seems to be a common complaint on 1.9L engines. Does the hunting settle down noticeably when you remove the oil fill cap? Mine did and that was my clue to how to get it to stay calm.

[OhChit]

[Wildthings]

Talking about the separate shaft that sits in the bore below the distributor. It has teeth that mesh with the teeth on the brass gear on the crankshaft. You just need to raise it enough so the teeth are free to turn, but as I said, don't raise it any higher than necessary. Moving it one tooth is equal to about 28° difference in the clocking of the distributor when it goes back in.

[OhChit]

[Wildthings]

There is actually a spec in the manual on where to set the drive to. Since you need to move it anyway, might as well put it where VW says to.

[morymob]

Verify with meter the TPSwitch is working, closed at idle, if open or an open wire this will cause hunting u have,ecu can't find a reference point for idle, this sw does this.

[Skip Laubach]

1984 WBXR 1.9L (now 2.2 in a 1.9 case) just back from the machine shop. They installed the new innards and installed the distributor...maybe incorrectly. Need help please.

I finished the engine install yesterday and she started. I idled at about 2k rpms for about 20 minutes total (off and on). Then I took her for a ride (intendingmtombreakmin the rings) and it was bucking in 1st and 2nd so I drove her back to my garage (home). I'm following Tencent's recommendation for breaking in a renewed engine.

Upon close examination of the dizzy drive shaft, the "smaller half circle" is 90 degrees away (smaller half circle points toward front of van) from pointing to the water pump (Bentley spec) at TDC. So, I figure that is the cause for bucking (timing way off). Perhaps my machinist did not place the distributor drive shaft in correctly? So I searched thesamba and found this thread.

I took Wildthings' advice and used the wood dowel (1/4") to lift the dizzy drive shaft 1/2 to 3/4". It wouldn't turn once i had it raised. I discovered, though, that I could turn the pulley without having the dizzy drive shaft turn when raised enough. So, I thought, why not move the pulley 90 degrees, push the dizzy drive shaft in, then turn the pulley back to TDC and Bob's your uncle. Not so. I couldn't get the dizzy drive shaft to drop back down into the drive shaft gears while the pulley was 90 degrees ATDC. Maybe I didn't wiggle it enough? Or maybe there's a reason it wouldn't drop?

Help please?!
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Skip
1984 Westy 1.9 case WBXR Manual (now with 2200cc GoWesty kit)
Since 26 July 2011

[Wildthings]

Never had one not turn when I have it lifted up, though they can be stiff as sometimes there is some gum in the bore at above the level of the drive shaft, but if your engine was just apart and tanked then the gum should be gone. Have your tried spraying some light oil down into the bore? You could take a somewhat large wooden dowel and use it as a punch to try and drive the drive down. I would be leering of using much force though.

I am wondering if the shims still had grease on them and came up with the drive and then got jammed against the brass gear. Not sure what is best to do is this is the case.

[Skip Laubach]

Thanks Wildthings.

One intermediate thing that I tried tonight was to line the rotor up with the mark on the top of the distributor, then put the #1 cylinder wire there (which was 90 degrees counterclockwise (at TDC), place the remaining wires in the correct order and try to start the engine. Engine would turn over but no ignition. Did trying this make any sense?

I'll try the lift and turn on the dizzy drive shaft again tomorrow.


Skip
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Skip
1984 Westy 1.9 case WBXR Manual (now with 2200cc GoWesty kit)
Since 26 July 2011

[Wildthings]

What is important is that you can get the timing mark on the pulley to align properly with the parting line of the case. If you can set the timing correctly then the clocking of the drive is of minor importance.

Sorry I am too confused as to where you are at at this point to offer anything else in the way of advice.

[Skip Laubach]

Solved!

I went at it again this evening. I removed the dizzy drive shaft completely and rotated it to the correct position (as per Bentley), then dropped it into place (I checked the shim/washer and it was in place and fine...very lucky!).

I replaced the distributor, correctly positioning the rotor, replaced the plugs, etc., and the engine fired right up! I took a quick spin around the neighborhood to check for bucking, none whatsoever.

Then, I set the idle timing (I'll do the 3,000 rpm timing a bit later, as per Tencent method) and took her out on the road for a drive. I went for a 20 minute ride, working 3rd and 4th gear as per Tencent's method, to set the rings.

Now back, I'll change the oil tomorrow (I'm using 4 oz. of ZDDP added to Valvoline 20W50 Dino racing oil). Why? Because someone recommended it, i guess.

Thanks Wildthings for staying with me on this. I appreciate your help!

I have another thread on this rebuild and will expand on everything else a bit later...

Skip
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Skip
1984 Westy 1.9 case WBXR Manual (now with 2200cc GoWesty kit)
Since 26 July 2011