Berrien Warrior frame - saftey mods

[ffjosh]

Im thinking about buying a buggy with a berrien frame. Its a very nice machine but the saftey aspect worries me.

Im thinking it needs some A pillar supports and B pillar supports. Maybe a X on the roof and a extra tube accross to help with the B pillar.

I would also like a better bar for the 5 point belts. I read that the max is 10 degrees where this frame its almost doing a 180...talk about killing your back.


Any other areas that need support?

[pafree]

you gotta think about the way the impact will be coming.

if you roll to the side then the impact will come to the top corners.

if you roll backwards or even forwards going up or down a hill then the force will come towards the passengers these ways.

the DPV added the A-pillar gussets.

and B-pillar supports

if you are worried about side protection ride on the street then add side baskets out of lighter material that will act a crush zones. inspect all the welds and you can always add as many triangle shaped corner gussets as you feel needed.

[pafree]

this is a good read.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3771516&highlight=#3771516

[ffjosh]

m more worried about rolling onto its top and the windsheild coming into my lap.

I read your link and that is exactly what im worried about.

I like the A pillar gusset but I think it needs to be higher. The tube start at the top of the loop and come back slightly.

Just my opinion on what I have see in the past. Since the B pillar already leans back I would think you would want another B pillar in the front? That I was not sure on.

Look at my ideas....Red is my first choice, purple was a 2nd.

[pafree]

i would put the extra B-pillar behind the seat. keep you from hitting your head. there was thread that i can't find (hundred years back) about if the car is convertible then the bar should be behind the seat.

[darkflaw]

Nice thread, I am about to go hog-wild on mine once I get a few more things done. I never want to experienced a folding cage, ever. I think people should treat kits as something you use as a base to build from, and not onto.
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Berrien 295 Build Thread
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482673

[CJBRODEY]

Still working on my Warrior frame, but I added the double head bars, tree bars, windshield supports and I made my own front reinforcement bars. I am also going to create a crumple zone for the steering shaft using tilt steering and u-joints.

[ffjosh]

I see lots of people put a little support on the windshield. Is that enought?

I would think a A pillar would need to be added.

Or possible another bar from the top of the windshield to the back bar.

[CJBRODEY]

I guess it all depends on what kind of abuse you plan on putting it thru.
I can take a regular type 1 and roll it onto its top and its gonna crumple the top. I seen many a buggy roll over and keep on going with no damage at all.

[ffjosh]

More of just road driving and some flat fields. So unless I hit a bump at a high rate of speed I should be fine.

I will go to the dunes in June every year so I mainly want it for that.

[Wayne26]

bummer got to page 4 and all the pics for the new design no longer show..

[special-k]

I think pafree has the right idea. Run the extra a pillar as high as possible on the windshield frame and as far back as you can on the side tube while still being able to get in and out of the car. You could hinge those tubes like the drag cars do with their side bars. I think the back hoop is strong enough but if you want to run it from the corner forward to the side tube. We dirt tracked an old CSC frame that had tubes running corner to corner on each side of the cage. My dad had to climb in from the front. He made his own removable steering wheel to help out.

[dustymojave]

I've been a Tech Inspector for OffRoad racing since Mickey Thompson came to my dad in 1972 to get the technical part of the rules written for starting SCORE. I had been Tech Inspecting SCCA Road Racers for 10 years before that. I've been working the last several years to get California Offroad racers roll cages back in line with the existing rules. I have been a professional Race Car Fabricator since 1986.

With that intro, I'll offer a little advice on your project. And a pat on the back for even being concerned.

The Berrien Warrior is a fine frame. Get the "Chassis Brace Kit"
http://www.berrienbuggy.com/id81_chassis_brace_kit.htm
I prefer to put the B Pillar hoop at the ends of the torsion housing. Like pafree showed.

The diagonal bar in the brace kit should be in a plane with the hoop for best strength. Rear braces from the top of the B hoop at the roof bars down to the intersection of the top side rails and the cross tube above the bell housing is good. And add a shoulder bar (1-1/2" x .095) for the belts which is welded to the B Pillar hoop so it is at 10* or less down from your shoulders. You're right about the shoulder straps being mounted WAY too low in the Berrien design. This cage will be essentially race legal for MORE off road desert racing. It will also be stronger than if it has the double B hoops.

A 1/16" 6061 T-6 Aluminum roof bolted to the roof gussets and tabs at the roof bar peaks will complete the package and especially keep the cage from sinking into sand. It will provide shade too as a side benefit.

Install 5-point harnesses to keep you in the cage.
http://www.jegs.com/i/R.J.S.+Safety+Equipment/140/50502-19-23/10002/-1
Lever latch - NOT cam lock. The cams jam up when dirty. Keep the belts clean and out of sunlight to make them last.

For side impact, tree bars should be made of tubing which is weaker than the main frame tubes. Typical eastern style full size tree bars dead ended into the sides of frame tubes will transfer impacts into the frame tubes and cause failure of what is there to protect you. It's better if the tree bars fail 1st, providing a crush zone. I understand you want some protection from trees and such, but it should not be at the price of damaging what you're trying to protect. Western style "nerf bars" are made of 1" x .065 tube and are installed in sockets of 1-1/4" x .120 so when damaged, they can be removed and replaced. 1-1/4" x .065 with 1-1/2 x .120 sockets would be good too.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[ffjosh]

Thanks for the help! Its very much appreciated.

Maybe i missed it but what about supporting the windshield. What would you recommned?

[SamT]

I have rolled/ seen others roll many berrien frames than they hold up well. In the sand, no extra support is needed, unless you run a heavier than VW power train. Dirt you are fine too. But asphault is unforgiving. My biggest concern with a street legal rail would be side impact. Crush to an extent is your friend in an accident, If you build it too rigid you will be injured more, of course if you are too weak then your dead. I think the pillar supports that support 1/2 way up or so are your best bet to make it stronge, but still have some crush to absorb impact. How close is you head from the roof?

If I was ordering a new frame I would have berrien use a .120 wall tube on the sides to help with side impact, you could do the roll bars that way as well. Chassis would only weigh 50lb more approx.