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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject: Front Tire Mount question? |
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Hello all, Just curious as im trying to find the best washers and bolts to keep the tire off the nose skin of bus yet secured to mount and one thing Ive noticed is that the tire mount only has two of the lower spacers to keep tire away from body. In my searches I have seen to have run accross this very thing on many tire mounts. Is this normal, should i just throw some washers and 1/2 nuts in this are to fill the gap? Here is a crappy picture of mount, its the top most stud that does not have spacer.
My solution for now is to take nuts and washer to give me as much clearance as possible from body and tire. Right now the tire touches the body and am affraid to tighten it down to mount as it will pull on the rivets holding the tire mount. I know this probably has been covered in great detail before in other threads. and it will bring the many who would say i should have not even put the tire mount back on in the first place. If i had to do it all again I would not even need to ask this question. I am learning. 
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Kirk
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003
Posts: 5492
Location: North Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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One vote for a nose emblem instead of a spare. 
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Krautski
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009
Posts: 874
Location: WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming your avatar is an accurate representation of your bus having recently gotten a paint job....don't ruin your new paint and straight metal with an ugly ass tire on the front of it.
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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sorry guys already ruined. This avatar is month old. Paint done and mount is on. Any info on possible best option from this point would be appreciate. I vote for now tire on front but its too late
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17869
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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as an owner of a bus that had that stupid thing mounted on it, i will give you my .02. after about 10 hours of intense labor trying to keep the nose from oil canning after removal, i can tell you this
you will need to mount it flush to the body. any, and i mean any space between the nose and that foolish bracket will allow the tire to move fore and aft, jiggle on bumps etc and will most likely buckle/oil can the nose. the further away from the body the wose it is. it's your bus and your preference, but after seeing the amount of damage they cause (by just hanging there, no accident's or anything) i would find a better way to carry a spare.
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
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| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
as an owner of a bus that had that stupid thing mounted on it, i will give you my .02. after about 10 hours of intense labor trying to keep the nose from oil canning after removal, i can tell you this
you will need to mount it flush to the body. any, and i mean any space between the nose and that foolish bracket will allow the tire to move fore and aft, jiggle on bumps etc and will most likely buckle/oil can the nose. the further away from the body the wose it is. it's your bus and your preference, but after seeing the amount of damage they cause (by just hanging there, no accident's or anything) i would find a better way to carry a spare. |
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well noted....thank you
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Dondobe
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2004
Posts: 97
Location: Tucson & Flagstaff AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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When I had my mount off, I replaced the lug bolts with longer bolts (welded them in place) with plenty of thread so I could put a nut on each bolt (behind the wheel) to adjust the spacing away from the body.
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Millennium Falcon
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Joined: December 01, 2006
Posts: 405
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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How about no spare at all?
I have never carried a spare around with me because in all my years of driving I have never ever blown out a sidewall or had any other type of catastrophic tire failure.
Sure I've picked up a few nails and screws along the way but I can install a plug and fill up tire with a small compressor just as easy as changing a spare. So why lug around a 50 pound brick of a spare tire at all?
All the blow outs I have seen are because some one is driving around on 30 year old tires with 15 psi.
Good tires and proper psi that's my motto.
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
you will need to mount it flush to the body. any, and i mean any space between the nose and that foolish bracket will allow the tire to move fore and aft, jiggle on bumps etc and will most likely buckle/oil can the nose. the further away from the body the wose it is. |
Ditto that for sure. You don't want it tight and trying to pull the mount off the nose. And you don't want it spaced out to flop around and also cause nose damage. Either way it's bad. You want minimal snug and not floppy contact.
And obviously the three studs each need the correct length spacers. I don't like the rubber spacers since the lengths change if you tighten it differently.
Be cautious if you take it off to air it. Different pressures affect tire thickness and how it might pull on the nose.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17869
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
| Be cautious if you take it off to air it. Different pressures affect tire thickness and how it might pull on the nose. |
forgot that too  the p/o of my bus had put so much air in the tire, it left an imprint of the tire in the paint. not like a dirt imprint, but all the letters were visible in the paint so deep that it extended into the primer 
if you over inflate the tire, you will for sure have the same issue. and seeing your paint is fresh, it will be soft for quite some time. i don't care if it was painted by a shop or not, it will have some dieback, no matter if it was base/clear or single stage. it will loose some DOI and need another scuff and buff at some point.
at any rate, be careful. i would have never believed it if i had not seen (and sanded it out) for myself. i'll never forget seeing 'RAEY DOOG' burnt deep into the paint
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Dondobe
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2004
Posts: 97
Location: Tucson & Flagstaff AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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My tire is about 1/2" away from the body and I have a bike rack on it. I have very little movment. What I neglected to say before was that on the inside I used plate steel and welded nuts to the back side for the bolts that hold on the tire mount. NO RIVETS!!
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1971 Super Beetle conv.
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Westfabulous
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 4207
Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Matt, if I had the misfortune of finding myself in your unenviable position, after spending so much money on this bus, I would go into a full emergency stop. Then I would pay the $750 to fix the nose and shoot it again; plain and simple. You are in to this bus for a ton of money, what's a few more bucks to fix a mistake? Surely you factored the odd "re do" into your budget. Be happy with the outcome. I promise you that once the cheque is written, the pain will subside, and you can drive happily ever after without regrets. I applaud your work! I regret your spare tire decision.
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42655
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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get nuts at your local flaps and put 1 or 2 on it on each stud before you put the tire on to hold the tire off the nose. Put air in it first. Even with it off the bus nose there will be damage. That is just how life if when the tire is on the nose.
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Westfabulous
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 4207
Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Even with it off the bus nose there will be damage. That is just how life if when the tire is on the nose. |
Based on the comments here, you are going to damage the front and have to paint it again at some point. Why not do it now? Pay me now, or pay me later, but you will pay me in the end.
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm waiting for someone to post a Samba topic that doesn't end up with everyones differing opinions.  Think it's possible?
I'd never put a spare on the nose of mine. However everytime I camp I wish that spare wasn't in the spare well and eating up bed room. Thought about it a lot and there is no good alternate place inside or outside.
Curtis did the good thing like we did with puting a reinforcing plate on the inside and using bolts. Our gal wanted it on the nose and that's what we did.
We did it the right way like Skills and I outlined and it was a good install. No problems contrary to other comments. We made a vinyl cover with a drawstring that pulled in between the nose and tire, real snug but not pulling. Only way there would be nose damage is running into something that would cause damage anyway.
And it was on recent new good paint. So heres the read deal- Sure, it might imprint or something on the paint after a while. No big deal. The tire hides it and will keep on hiding any flaws or dullness in the paint. It's not going to rub thru and be a problem since the tire can be properly mounted. Once someone has the mount installed (like Curtis) they will not be driving around without the tire, or try to remove the mount and no one will ever see any possible flaw in the paint. People with torn up front ends just didn't do it right. Some people like the looks of it and some don't. No biggie 
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I vote repaint the nose and remove that spare tire. I had mine removed when I had it painted. It's a great place to collect rust... but yours seemed quite rust free and I wouldn't have painted it to begin with...
I guess if you take the tire off every time it gets driven and you keep it stored in the garage then you will be okay, otherwise there will always be dirt and water and leaves and mud getting packed in there and yes it DOES eventually wear to metal. Even being properly mounted there is still expansion in the tire and the metal at different rates so it will make some small scratches and rust.
That being said... mine didnt dent the nose. just left a nice rusty ring.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42655
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
I'm waiting for someone to post a Samba topic that doesn't end up with everyones differing opinions. Think it's possible?
I'd never put a spare on the nose of mine. However everytime I camp I wish that spare wasn't in the spare well and eating up bed room. Thought about it a lot and there is no good alternate place inside or outside.
Curtis did the good thing like we did with puting a reinforcing plate on the inside and using bolts. Our gal wanted it on the nose and that's what we did.
We did it the right way like Skills and I outlined and it was a good install. No problems contrary to other comments. We made a vinyl cover with a drawstring that pulled in between the nose and tire, real snug but not pulling. Only way there would be nose damage is running into something that would cause damage anyway.
And it was on recent new good paint. So heres the read deal- Sure, it might imprint or something on the paint after a while. No big deal. The tire hides it and will keep on hiding any flaws or dullness in the paint. It's not going to rub thru and be a problem since the tire can be properly mounted. Once someone has the mount installed (like Curtis) they will not be driving around without the tire, or try to remove the mount and no one will ever see any possible flaw in the paint. People with torn up front ends just didn't do it right. Some people like the looks of it and some don't. No biggie |
Mike - mybe I missed something but no one is differeing in opinion here. We all agree it causes nose damage. Some chose to accept it and get the space back, others chose to not have the damage and give up the space. It is a personal preference. I had a front mounted spare for 400,000 miles on my 1971. I don't have it on my 1977 cause I don't want to deal with the damage. In 10 - 15 years when I sell it the next owner can decide what they want to do.
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srfndoc
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 3390
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
I'm waiting for someone to post a Samba topic that doesn't end up with everyones differing opinions. Think it's possible?
I'd never put a spare on the nose of mine. However everytime I camp I wish that spare wasn't in the spare well and eating up bed room. Thought about it a lot and there is no good alternate place inside or outside.
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A nice roof rack is a great place for a spare or two!
It's like your on safari every day!
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stubing
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 80
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Can the spare tire be mounted low enough for the bumper to bear weight?
Did Westfalia make the modifications or always owners? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52848
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| stubing wrote: |
Can the spare tire be mounted low enough for the bumper to bear weight?
Did Westfalia make the modifications or always owners? |
Those brackets were an aftermarket item sold by dealers and usually installed by them too, Westfalia shipped the bus with the spare in the back. When they did front mount a spare they extended the front bumper and mounted the spare behind it down low under a fiberglass box on some later European models.
There are a few better brackets available that spread the load to the bumper and keep the tire off the nose skin.
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