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westyguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: Oil temperature |
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| Just hooked up an oil temperature gauge in my 67 Westy. The sending unit is at the oil relief pressure valve. At 60-65 mph the temp. is 230 degrees. Is this a bit high or is that in the normal range? I'm running a 1641 dual port, 34 pict 3 carb, with reduction gear boxes and stock tranny. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79401
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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230 is the upper range of normal. Any more and it's a problem.
Are you sure the gauge is accurate? Mine reads 40 degrees hotter than it actually is.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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twinfallsbass
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
230 is the upper range of normal. Any more and it's a problem.
Are you sure the gauge is accurate? Mine reads 40 degrees hotter than it actually is. |
I'm looking to install one as well, how does one go about testing it for accuracy? |
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shano63
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2006
Posts: 3631
Location: Stormville NY
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ekimikem
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 438
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| If you boil it in a pot of water you will know if it's in the ball park. I ran 230 to 240 oil temps last summer and had caliper sized ring gaps when I pulled my motor apart. |
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j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9830
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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If its really 230F, that engine would "feel hot" when you open the decklid.
I don't know how to describe it, except its too hot to touch, and it emits heat making you not want to go near it. Grabbing the dipstick would be out of the question.
Also, the Clara technique of spitting on the engine block would cause your spit to boil nearly instantly.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79401
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| twinfallsbass wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
230 is the upper range of normal. Any more and it's a problem.
Are you sure the gauge is accurate? Mine reads 40 degrees hotter than it actually is. |
I'm looking to install one as well, how does one go about testing it for accuracy? |
I used a Raytek Infrared thermometer and a Pyrex calibrated deep fry thermometer down the dipstick.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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bugninva
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8858
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: oil temperature |
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| westyguy wrote: |
| Just hooked up an oil temperature gauge in my 67 Westy. The sending unit is at the oil relief pressure valve. At 60-65 mph the temp. is 230 degrees. Is this a bit high or is that in the normal range? I'm running a 1641 dual port, 34 pict 3 carb, with reduction gear boxes and stock tranny. |
reduction boxes and running 60-65 is likely your problem... I don't know what your RPM's would be at that speed, but remember, higher rpm's equal higher oil temperatures as a general rule...
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GEX has. Just sayin |
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Clara
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12592
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Re: oil temperature |
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| bugninva wrote: |
| westyguy wrote: |
| Just hooked up an oil temperature gauge in my 67 Westy. The sending unit is at the oil relief pressure valve. At 60-65 mph the temp. is 230 degrees. Is this a bit high or is that in the normal range? I'm running a 1641 dual port, 34 pict 3 carb, with reduction gear boxes and stock tranny. |
reduction boxes and running 60-65 is likely your problem... I don't know what your RPM's would be at that speed, but remember, higher rpm's equal higher oil temperatures as a general rule... |
Running 60-65 with stock 67 running gear should be no problem.
FWIW, the coolest rpms is ~2600-2800. The engine runs hotter below and above that speed. VW says a 67 top speedo is about 65mph IIRC, which is about 3500-4k rpms. ( I did the math at some point) Which means it will runs cooler if you slow down 5 mph.
My questions:
1) did you check the guage accuracy, like with a laser thermometer? Those things are awesome (fun) and you can get one at harbor freight.
2) What does the spit test say?
(spit at the engine at the base of the gen stand.) Water boils at 212F, spit is mostly water, does it boil instantly? If the spit hangs there and kinda sizzles, your engine is not at 230F.
3) what is the outside temp? is it 50F? 90F? If it is 70F or higher did you put the pre-heat in summer position?
4) do you have all the little pieces of tin people leave off? they help the engine work right. engine seals good? thermostat in place and working? doghouse or not?
5) show engine pic
6) I would expect 230F oil temps in the desert on a 90+ day with the bus loaded up going up a grade.
7) humidity? dry air does not cool as well as damp air.
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Stocknazi
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5453
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: |
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gauges make me paranoid, i like the spit on the engine case method
if you feel it is running hotter than it should and you have all your tin in place and your motor is in proper tune, upsize your lower crank pully to a
D pully and run a 36 hp generator pully
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Clara
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12592
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
gauges make me paranoid, i like the spit on the engine case method
if you feel it is running hotter than it should and you have all your tin in place and your motor is in proper tune, upsize your lower crank pully to a
D pully and run a 36 hp generator pully |
I ran a small upper pulley once and my engine didn't want to warm up properly, even with a thermostat, even after hours on the freeway it about got to 170F. Off the freeway the oil temps dropped.
Don't run those w/o guages, and not unless it is over 70 on a regular basis.
Running cold is bad for your motor.
It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, you want it not too hot, not too cold, but juuuuuust right. 
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12536
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| ekimikem wrote: |
| I ran 230 to 240 oil temps last summer and had caliper sized ring gaps when I pulled my motor apart. |
What is "caliper size"? 
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Snoop Bob
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Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 2687
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| ekimikem wrote: |
| I ran 230 to 240 oil temps last summer and had caliper sized ring gaps when I pulled my motor apart. |
What is "caliper size"? |
?? I was wondering the same thing...I guess it depends on how big your calipers are 
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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Braukuche
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Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11195
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
230 is the upper range of normal. Any more and it's a problem.
Are you sure the gauge is accurate? Mine reads 40 degrees hotter than it actually is. |
I tossed mine into the trash for that reason. I go by the unscientific method of holding the dipstick: if it burns my fingers its too hot. |
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Daddybus
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Joined: June 15, 2000
Posts: 1662
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Oil temp is relative. It depends on where in the cooling system you are measuring the temp. The oil bypass nearest the pulley measure hot oil before the stock cooler (stock cooler only cools a portion of the oil, not all). So if the oil is 230* at the bypass plug, then it is pretty hot going into the motor. I measure my oil temp after the oil has gone through the motor, but before it enters the cooling system. My oil temp sender is located in the universal case block off plate (for type 3 oil filler). It rests in oil that had through the motor (at its hottest). The motor is full-flowed so the oil goes from the case to a filter. The filter housing has a thermostat (180*) that sends the oil to a mesa cooler mounted between the frame rails. The mesa cooler has a fan. The oil line to the cooler has a thermostat switch to turn on the fan at 180*. When the oil is cold, it bypasses the secondary cooler and returns directly from the filter to the motor through the full-flow inlet. Once hot, the oil goes to the cooler (fan off). When really hot, the fan comes on. Driving through the Arizona desert in 106* heat, my oil temp was around 230*. Oil going into the motor was cooler. Even with a 2028cc in a bus, I really have to be hammering (80 mph+) in the heat to get the fan to come on. |
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ekimikem
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 438
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Snoop Bob wrote: |
| pyrOman wrote: |
| ekimikem wrote: |
| I ran 230 to 240 oil temps last summer and had caliper sized ring gaps when I pulled my motor apart. |
What is "caliper size"? |
?? I was wondering the same thing...I guess it depends on how big your calipers are |
What I meant was the ring gaps were so large they would be more easily measured with a caliper than by trying to stack feeler gauges if that makes any sense.
What I really meant is realize what's happening to your motor if you are running those types of temperatures. |
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Snoop Bob
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 2687
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, I get it now.
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Put your lips onto the little tit with the hole in it inside and make a good seal. You can suck and blow but with a little resistance. It gets better after it's wet. |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I would be interested in knowing the sizes of the various shafts. |
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DanM
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2002
Posts: 1371
Location: Falls Church, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: Re: oil temperature |
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| Clara wrote: |
| did you check the guage accuracy, like with a laser thermometer? Those things are awesome (fun) |
My neighbor has one of those, his is top of the line for HVAC guys. I've been thinking of borrowing it for kicks. Where would I point the laser beam to get an accurate reading of engine/oil temperature? |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1790
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: oil temperature |
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| DanM wrote: |
| Where would I point the laser beam to get an accurate reading of engine/oil temperature? |
I have experimented with a couple of laser IR guns and was not able to get any readings I was comfortable with. I shot many areas on the outside of the case with a huge variety of readings, none of which were close to the actual oil temp read at the T3 blockoff plate. The most accurate method I found for double checking my oil temp gauge was using a Fluke temp probe slid down the dipstick tube after a hard run.
Good Luck!
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Wayland
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Joined: December 29, 2005
Posts: 500
Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| With my VDO gauge reading 195 (w/ sender in pressure relief hole), I tested various places on the motor with a small, cheap IR gauge. The case near the pressure relief sender read around 195 so I'm pretty sure the gauge is accurate. When testing the the temp on the sump plate I got a reading more around 165-170, so how hot is my oil actually getting? Where is the best location gauge sender? |
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