Basic Auxiliary/house battery questions

[jwatches]

I have an 89 Westy with the battery relay under the driver's seat, ready for an auxiliary battery to be installed there. I have read as many threads as I can find on the topic and admit that many are either more complicated than I need and/or beyond my ability to understand.

I have removed my refrigerator with a delete kit, but am otherwise a stock 89 Westy. I plan to follow the basic diagram below, with a Blue Sea fuse panel that has a negative bus built in.

My goals:
1. run the stereo, front map/dome lights and lighter from the aux battery
2. run the sink pump and rear overhead light from the aux battery
3. install a fuse panel in the sink cabinet for future accessories
4. install a Battery Tender in the sink cabinet, plugged into the no longer used refrigerator outlet, to charge the aux battery when plugged to shore power
5. Optional: eliminate the fuses at the driver side door post

My questions:
1. If I no longer use the fridge, can I eliminate the fuses at the bottom of the driver side door post?
2. How can I do the simple rewire posted here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3702332 to address my first goal AND install the ACR as shown in the diagram below? Do I need the stock aux battery relay, or can I simplify this further by running the wire from the stereo/lights/lighter dash circuit directly to my Blue Sea fuse panel?

[owokie]

Answers:

1. One of those stock fuses is for fridge, the other for sink pump. I removed the stock 2-fuse block and ran both leads to the blue seas fuse block I placed in a similar location to your plan. Once you remove the leads to the stock fuse box you'll find that two of them will simply pull out of the black sheathing, leaving you with two red leads (fridge and pump)
2. I'd remove the factory relay as it's redundant with the ACR in place. I run a Yandina in the exact location as the factory relay. As regards your #1 wish, run a lead from your blue seas fuse panel to the #3 fuse up front to power the items you mentioned from aux.

Just did this project and was briefly confused by the factory wiring harness coming from the rear medial corner of the driver's side under seat area (not the battery box). If you've got a stock westy setup, this bundle contains a hot lead coming from up front, this in addition to the two leads coming across laterally from the starter battery. You won't need this additional lead and should isolate it. Good luck!

[jwatches]

Thanks Owokie! Your response makes perfect sense to me, with the exception of the bit about the hot leads under the driver's seat and eliminating the stock relay. After I run a lead from behind the #3 fuse to my Blue Sea fuse panel, here is what I understand. Please clarify.

Starter Battery Side:

1. The Bentley 97.34a shows two red wires from the starter battery, in addition to the starter cable, one of which goes to the aux battery relay. The other red wire from the starter battery goes forward to connect with the main dash harness. In my case, I have a red and a red/wht.
2. I have a red wire coming into the aux battery box and going to the relay, so I'll assume that is the one coming from the starter battery. I replace this with the heavy gauge primary wire I will connect the two batteries with through the ACR.

House Battery Side:

3. Blue wire to the relay is the ignition trigger for the relay. This should be connected to the starter isolation post on the ACR.
4. Two red wires going to the fuse box on the driver side door post.
These and the fuse box are removed. The two wires can then attached to my Blue Sea fuse panel in the cabinet
5. The red wire from the starter battery is gone due to step 2 above
6. That leaves the red/blk wire from the dash, which I assume is the hot lead you said initially confused you. Isolate and insulate this wire. It is not needed.

I end up with the following:

Starter battery with three positive wires; starter cable (stock), main harness (stock) and heavy gauge across to ACR / aux battery (new)
Aux battery with two positive wires; one heavy gauge from starter battery / ACR (new) and one medium gauge to Blue Sea fuse panel

Hopefully I got all that right.

[crazyvwvanman]

That diagram on page 97.34a probably isn't for your van. If you look at it there are no red wires from that battery relay to the 2 fuse holder behind the driver seat.

Did your van come with factory air conditioning? Is it a Syncro?

The factory relay under the driver seat in most full Westys is the fridge relay, shown on 97.33b with 2 red wires from it to the 2 fuse holder behind the driver.

Mark

[owokie]

Sounds like you have a handle on it, dive in! My wiring differed in that:

1. In addition to the wires you describe, I have one (stock) lead running from the cigarette plug on passenger seat base to aux battery. It runs in the same housing as the stock lead from starter battery to aux. I chose to disconnect it on the aux side and connect it to the blue seas fuse panel (rather than the stock straight to aux connection). I don't know if you have the same lead or not.
2. I didn't use the blue wire with my Yandina. My understanding is that the draw from starter on aux, if not isolated, would cause the Yandina to isolate anyway given the large draw. That situation never happens to me because I never use shore power nor do I start the car when my solar is set up.
3. It sounds like our wiring is slightly different as my stock lead (together along with cig lead) from the starter battery enters the aux side on the lateral side of the under-seat area (again not the battery box) through a grommet.
4. I did not replace the stock starter batt to aux lead as my flow is limited by the Yandina and its associated wiring. In addition, when I checked voltage drop across that decently-sized lead with a fully charged starter battery and aux at ~11.5V I saw only 0.1V drop with the car running. Not enough to make a difference for my needs. YMMV, particularly as you're running an ACR capable of handling more amperage and you're not running a stock alternator.

Clear as mud? Good luck!

[jwatches]

I feel like I'm getting a handle on this. Crazyvwman is on to something. I do have factory A/C, though I don't have a Synchro. Bottom line, the wires are a bit different than 97.34a, even though I do have a 89 Westy with manual transmission.

The key is that I have determined the role of each wire connecting to the relay under the driver's seat and know what to do with each one to accompliash my goals. The only "mystery" wire is the red/wht on my starter battery poaitive terminal. I have the starter cable, the red wire going to the relay under the driver's seat and the red/wht wire. I assume the red/wht feeds into the dash harness and is not relevant to this thread.

I will replace the red wire from the starter positive terminal to the relay with my #4 battery cable and the ACR. Hopefully Crazyvwman can clarify the red/wht wire, but i think it is the feed to the dash harness. Already have the blue figured out and I think I can test the red/blk to see if it is ignition swiched or direct current and verify it is not needed.

[crazyvwvanman]

The red/black is actually used as an active ground for the stock relay and you should NOT use it for anything. Don't use the blue wire either, since you no longer have the 3 way fridge.

If the red and red/white at the starter battery come from the same black sleeve then BOTH go to the dash wiring and you should leave them alone, still attached to the starter battery cable.

When the factory installs the aux battery wiring option they use a separate wiring harness just for it and the wires use additional holes through the body metal.

Mark

[owokie]

[crazyvwvanman]

Yes, your setup matches what I said. An under seat cig socket is wired in as part of the aux battery in some vans. I've owned several vans with that, 85, 86, 87 that came with an electric only portable fridge. On other vans there is no cig socket as part of the aux battery harness since those vans didn't come with the electric only portable fridge. I've had a couple of those too, both 90 base models. In other words there is more than one factory aux battery option harness. But neither shares the same sleeve with the underlying vehicle harness.

Mark

[jwatches]

Its hard to tell w/o dropping my gas tank, but it looks like in my case the red and the red/wht wires on my starter battery go out the bottom of the battery box, across the van on the back side of the cross member in front of the gas tank and then it looks like it turns down and/or back and joins another harness.

It looks like Crazyvwman may be right about my 89 Westy being a standard single battery set-up with no auxiliary battery harness. I don't have any additional holes in the battery box or other indications to the contrary. My former assumption was that one of the wires on my relay was the red wire coming from my starter positive post and would be eliminated.

1. Is the red wire coming in under my driver's seat the one from the starter battery I replace with the heavy gauge wire I plan to run between the two batteries through my ACR? If not, what is it and what do I do with it?
2. I had planned to run the blue wire to the start isolation post on my ACR with the understanding that it carries current to trip the relay only when the starter is engaged via the ignition switch. If that understanding is correct, the same function is performed for the ACR, telling it I am starting the van and to fully isolate the starter battery for that purpose.

[crazyvwvanman]

The multi wires in the black sleeve come from the dash fuse/relay panel. You should not use the blue and red/black for anything. The red wire with them brings dash battery power for the Westy kitchen. It can now be used to send aux power from the aux battery to the fuse panel. You need to move it at both ends to do this.

Mark

[jwatches]

Thanks Mark. I was planning to run a wire from the behind the #3 fuse to my auxiliary fuse panel to power the stereo, dome/map lights and cigarette lighter from the auxiliary battery. Can I kill two birds with one stone by configuring the red wire as you describe and also use it to power the circuit on fuse #3?

If that is not a good idea, I'd appreciate your guidance on the best way to re-wire the red wire to supply aux power to the dash fuse panel. Obviously need to connect the battery end to an auxiliary power source like the aux battery or the aux fuse panel, but not sure about what needs to be done on the dash fuse/relay panel side.

[crazyvwvanman]

Yes, I re-use the red wire for carrying aux power to the fuse panel area to power the cig socket, radio, interior lights. In 86+ vans this is done through fuse socket #3.

The red wire is originally plugged into one of the "P" spades on the back of the 86" panel. Simply unplug it from there and connect it to what you want to use aux power instead.

Mark

[jwatches]

Perfect! Thanks for that info Mark. I'm now ready to dive in.

[jwatches]

Just a follow-up post on this project in case others find this useful.

1. I used the same four 22amp wheel chair battery set-up found elsewhere on the forum and placed them under the driver's seat.
2. Ran 2 gauge wire between the starter and house batteries, connecting them through a Blue Sea ACR battery isolator.
3. Put a 100 amp mega-fuse between each battery and the ACR and placed them under the driver swivel seat. They just sit in there without being secured, as they are about the width of the cavity and the heavy cables keep them from moving around.
4. Ran 4 gauge wire from the house battery through the existing hole in the cabinet to a Blue Sea auxiliary fuse panel with six fused circuits.
The original wire carrying power from the dash to the fridge relay was repurposed, as described in this thread. The relay is removed, the blue and red/blk wire are tied out of the way, and the the remaining two wires going to the fuses on the door pillar are also removed along with the fuse box on the pillar.
5. I reused the sleeve from these latter two wires to cover the extended power wire from the dash, which is now connected to the new fuse panel. The other end was moved from the P section on the back of the factory fuse panel and connected to the S3 fuse on the front.
6. Installed a Battery Tender battery charger in the cabinet, plugged into the fridge socket, so I charge the batteries whenever I plug into shore power.

The wires formally connected from the door pillar fuse box to the sink motor and fridge are now connected to the auxiliary fuse panel. Now all the interior lights, the stereo and the cigarette lighter all run off the house battery. My fridge is gone, so I plan to use that circuit for a future stereo and sub-woofer set-up.

I have a shunt on the negative side of the aux fuse panel to which I will be adding a digital meter showing load, remaining charge, etc. Here are some pics. Thanks to Owokie and Crazyvwman for the help!!

[Bootstrap]

Hi jwatches,

Great looking setup, very clean and simple.

Couple of questions - how did you end up running wire between the starter battery box and the aux box? Under carpet, through existing holes, drilled?

Also, is it fairly obvious which red wire to pull from the "P" spades in the 86 fuse to repurpose to fuse #3?

Thanks,
Bill