Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Aux Batt question
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Aux Batt question Reply with quote

I have used the search, but not found my question yet. So if it is out there and phrased differently, be gentle.

Got my Yandina yesterday, and getting ready to get a battery. There is a wire going to my main battery, not sure, but guess itis going to the fuse pack up front and powering it? Should that be removed and moved to aux?

Aux will only supply power to the fridge and to the cabin lights in rear? This would happen when transferring the power from the relay in the aux compartment? The fridge part I understand, not sure about cabin lights. I would think that comes with rewiring them as in present config, the relay cuts 12v to fridge.

I guess I just need to go and start tracking scenarios, stilll searching for a battery to fit.

Here is an easy one, where do you mount the Yandina? Needs to be in open to see the lights, but do you really need to see them? Seems inside would be neater.
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rubbachicken
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
rubbachicken is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would, i moved ALL internal wiring to my aux battery, interior lights, radio, cigg lighter sockets every thing
there's a relay and a connector plug, under the drivers seat, also the 2 way fuse box under the drivers seat belt
i disconnected the wires into them, and ran wires to a new fuse board
i used a karmann ghia fuse board
_________________
lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'


markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8855
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Aux Batt question Reply with quote

Don't mess with the stock red power wire from the main battery to the fuse panel!

If you have the stock 3 way Dometic you should leave it wired to the fridge relay but run a new power supply wire from the aux battery to the fridge relay. That way the fridge will still only run on 12 volts while the engine is running but you will get better fridge performance from the higher voltage available over the Yandina connection.

No need to put the Yandina where you can see it but some guys do still like extra lights and gauges to play with.

Mark




BillWYellowstone wrote:
....
Got my Yandina yesterday, and getting ready to get a battery. There is a wire going to my main battery, not sure, but guess itis going to the fuse pack up front and powering it? Should that be removed and moved to aux?

Aux will only supply power to the fridge and to the cabin lights in rear? This would happen when transferring the power from the relay in the aux compartment? The fridge part I understand, not sure about cabin lights. I would think that comes with rewiring them as in present config, the relay cuts 12v to fridge.

Here is an easy one, where do you mount the Yandina? Needs to be in open to see the lights, but do you really need to see them? Seems inside would be neater.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rubbachicken
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
rubbachicken is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Aux Batt question Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Don't mess with the stock red power wire from the main battery to the fuse panel!

If you have the stock 3 way Dometic you should leave it wired to the fridge relay but run a new power supply wire from the aux battery to the fridge relay. That way the fridge will still only run on 12 volts while the engine is running but you will get better fridge performance from the higher voltage available over the Yandina connection.

No need to put the Yandina where you can see it but some guys do still like extra lights and gauges to play with.

Mark


dump the dometic, they are a waste of space, there's a truck fridge that fits in the same space, bigger on the inside, more modern, more efficient more $$$, doh, but with it in the long run
_________________
lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'


markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8855
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Aux Batt question Reply with quote

I have gone to the modern electric only fridges myself but there are downsides as you well know. Like needing to idle the engine for long periods while camped, or parking in direct sun to feed the solar panel instead of tucking away in a nice shady and private spot. I used to be able to park for a week or two without worrying much about my fridge running out of power and I still long for that freedom of propane. There are tradeoffs either way.

Mark

rubbachicken wrote:

dump the dometic, they are a waste of space, there's a truck fridge that fits in the same space, bigger on the inside, more modern, more efficient more $$$, doh, but with it in the long run
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 5772
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did we get into an argument about fridges when th OP asked a totally straightforward question about batteries? While he's finding a place for the yandina he might as well start an engine swap too since we all know how plagued the wbx is.

You can mount the yandina anywhere but just don't shorten the wire leads. There is one circuit you can tie over to the aux battery if you want. I think it's #3 but I could be mistaken. It powered the radio and such. Good luck!
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK on the fridge chat, future project. So, the #3 (maybe, on the main fuse block? Have to look. I was just out in town and NAPA has the Optima gel that will fit. Probably suck it up and just get it.

I looked at the little fuse block for the fridge, and may have just figured my own question.. 2 fuses, fan and fridge?

Still cold enough anything refrigerated can just be left on the counter. Just drove through snow to get back here.

Yes, today. 6/9/12.
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubbified
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1287
Location: Redmond, WA
dubbified is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
i would, i moved ALL internal wiring to my aux battery, interior lights, radio, cigg lighter sockets every thing
there's a relay and a connector plug, under the drivers seat, also the 2 way fuse box under the drivers seat belt
i disconnected the wires into them, and ran wires to a new fuse board
i used a karmann ghia fuse board


What about a three way switch?

Primary battery, OFF, Accessory battery


?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
rubbachicken
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
rubbachicken is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dubbified wrote:
rubbachicken wrote:
i would, i moved ALL internal wiring to my aux battery, interior lights, radio, cigg lighter sockets every thing
there's a relay and a connector plug, under the drivers seat, also the 2 way fuse box under the drivers seat belt
i disconnected the wires into them, and ran wires to a new fuse board
i used a karmann ghia fuse board


What about a three way switch?

Primary battery, OFF, Accessory battery


?


confused, why do i need a 3 way switch ?
the split charge relay separates the aux battery as soon as the engine is off, so i can run the aux down, and still drive off in the morning
or am i missing something ?
_________________
lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'


markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the Optima battery, Looks like there are a number of post configurations for the I guess it is considered a group 34? The one I found at NAPA is a D34M Blue. It has regular posts, plus the wingnut post. The Yellow top seems to eliminate the automotive style posts.

Looks like pricey but one of best options out there.
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubbified
Samba Member


Joined: March 03, 2010
Posts: 1287
Location: Redmond, WA
dubbified is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rubba,

The talking point was whether to tie stereo into driving battery, or the auxillary.

The idea here is to put a three way switch in, which allows one to toggle to Primary starting battery, or the Auxillary battery.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the stereo was tied to house batt all the time, the combiner would keep it charged with engine running, and would provide power while not. 3-way switch would not be required.

3-way switches and escape keys, neither get you what you want at the moment.
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thatvwbusguy
Samba Member


Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1711
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
thatvwbusguy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Mark (crazyvwvanman) on leaving the fridge relay in the loop. It will eliminate the possibility of leaving the fridge on 12V and killing the auxiliary battery in an alarmingly short span of time (hours, not days even with a healthy auxiliary battery). Remove the thick red wire coming from the dash to the relay, tape it up, tuck it safely away and then run a new fused wire from your auxiliary battery to power the fridge while the van is running.

The small black 2-circuit fuse box under the drivers side seatbelt is for the water pump and the fridge. The fridge wire can stay as is (once the power wire mod is done) and the water pump wire can be hooked to the auxiliary battery. An auxiliary fuse block is great to keep everything neat, well labeled and on its own circuit. I run the LED "glows when it blows" fuses in my '85 Westy to help with quick troubleshooting.

The Yandina can be stowed away wherever you like. They are pretty much bulletproof once they are installed and have such a low rate of failure that it is not worth worrying about checking the status LEDs on a regular basis.

The #3 fuse mod will power your radio, interior lights and 12V socket. There are several good posts on how to hook it up if you do a quick search. I will also try to get a good writeup on my site as soon as I get the chance. Be sure to check which side of the fuse has power before you install the power wire from the auxiliary battery, it changes throughout the years (I think the power from the starting battery should be on the top side for your '86, so your fused auxiliary power supply wire should go on the bottom). The need for a 3-way switch to choose your power source for the stereo is going to add unneeded complexity to the system unless you are running multiple amplifiers. A low voltage alarm would probably be a much better choice.

Optima batteries are probably not the best match for the stock alternator unless you can also hook up to a 120V smart charger on a fairly regular basis to keep it happy. Unfortunately, there is no magic bullet for the "under the drivers seat" auxiliary battery install. If you can figure out a different space in the van to mount an auxiliary battery, the choices open up considerably.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
VANAGON HEADLIGHT RELAYS

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, forgot about the water pump.

I look forward to your write-up.

Under the back seat seems to be about the best alternate site, just need to run some heavy wire. With a vented battery, how have others vented that compartment?

The venting is why I really like the Optima style.
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thatvwbusguy
Samba Member


Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1711
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
thatvwbusguy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modern batteries really only offgas at very high charging rates. If you are charging from the alternator or a quality multi-program smart charger, there should be little to no offgassing.

I have had two Group 27 deep cycles in my fridge cabinet for several years and have never had any issue with offgassing whatsoever, even when doing an equalization charge with my 120V charger.

The area under the seat is by no means a sealed compartment, nor is the van as a whole. With one or two small auxiliary batteries in a van, offgassing would be the least of my worries, especially if I had grizzly bears for neighbors like you do Smile
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
VANAGON HEADLIGHT RELAYS

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
singler3360
Samba Member


Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 1191
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
singler3360 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thatvwbusguy wrote:
Modern batteries really only offgas at very high charging rates. If you are charging from the alternator or a quality multi-program smart charger, there should be little to no offgassing.

I have had two Group 27 deep cycles in my fridge cabinet for several years and have never had any issue with offgassing whatsoever, even when doing an equalization charge with my 120V charger.

The area under the seat is by no means a sealed compartment, nor is the van as a whole. With one or two small auxiliary batteries in a van, offgassing would be the least of my worries, especially if I had grizzly bears for neighbors like you do Smile

Hopefully this isn't considered off topic since the OP mentioned this.
My Trojan Group 27 off gases alot, enough to set off the hardwired CO/LP alarm in the middle of the night. I'm using an onboard BatteryMinder 2/4/8 charger and can hear the deep cycle bubbling away after a few hours (as it approaches max. charge?). Is something not right or should the OP consider this too in their install?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both good points. Plus I can get a used but fully tested deep cycle for cheap, it is something to consider. I have had issues with off-gassing in one of my truck campers that had the battery in the living area.

As to bears, I don't think they would be attracted to the off-gas aroma. More likely cooking sausage and trout.

Keep bear spray right by the door, or on my hip.

Considering the questions I have, the link to Randy's directions looks like I might go that way, just not sure is it seems to reference just using the existing relay.

As to under rear seat, right now using that for storage and it is full. Pulling unused forgot I had it there stuff sounds like a good idea right now.
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thatvwbusguy
Samba Member


Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1711
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
thatvwbusguy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never boiled a battery with any of my chargers (I only use standard lead acid batteries, since I generally think they are the best bang for the buck). I would check the voltage the next time you hear the boiling sound and see if it is appropriate to the manufacturers charge specifications. Also check the battery case for signs of warping from possible overheating.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
VANAGON HEADLIGHT RELAYS

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thatvwbusguy
Samba Member


Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1711
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
thatvwbusguy is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished the fuse #3 mod page on my site:
https://sites.google.com/site/vanagonheadlightrela...iary-power

As far as sorting out stuff that you forgot about under the rear seat, I keep that kinda stuff that I don't need to get to on a regular basis in the space under the drivers seat. Gotta put that space to good use for something if there isn't a battery in there...
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
VANAGON HEADLIGHT RELAYS

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BillWYellowstone
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2011
Posts: 767
Location: Yellowstone NP
BillWYellowstone is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, bought a big deep cycle for beneath the rear seat. Which works better, running positive up to under driver seat for that relay? As though it were there?
_________________
Live Fulltime in motorhome
Have 86 Westy Camper 2.1 rebuilt
Work in Yellowstone NP year round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB