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"Hot start" problem with a twist
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: "Hot start" problem with a twist Reply with quote

So I am familiar with the well documented "hot start" problem. In fact, I even installed the relay kit offered here on the Samba, which works great. However, recently, I have been having trouble starting my van under the follwoing condiitons: After it has been running for awhile (approx. 40 min or so seems to be enough). If I shut it down and try to restart soon there after it sounds like the battery is nearly dead. It barely turns over and soon stops all together. Battery is literally brand new, starter is newer (year or two).

Seems to be a variation on the classic hot start problem. Somewhere in the starting circuit is overheating and causing massive resistance. I checked and cleaned all the key terminals I can think of: battery, starter, ground at transmission.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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presslab
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: "Hot start" problem with a twist Reply with quote

JoshG wrote:
If I shut it down and try to restart soon there after it sounds like the battery is nearly dead. It barely turns over and soon stops all together. Battery is literally brand new, starter is newer (year or two).


Does the engine turn over but with a hiccup? If so, it could be a leaking fuel injector.

Is the starter new or a Bosch rebuild? I had problems with a Bosch rebuild that it would turn over slowly, especially when warm. I exchanged it for another and it's been fantastic.

Did you replace the starter bushing, if manual transaxle?
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The starter is a reman. and I did replace the little copper looking bushing when I installed the starter. The first few starts of the day are not vigorous but it does start. When it gets "hot" and fails, it turns over very slowly and then stops turning over at all.
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presslab
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do the ends of the battery cable look? Are they corroded? The wire itself can corrode as well, it can be hidden under the insulation.

What year is your van? The later years used a larger battery cable. While a larger cable will help, it likely isn't your problem.

Some tests to run when it's hot and someone else is craking the engine: Measure the battery voltage, voltage at the starter, and the starter current with a clamp-on ammeter.
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

presslab wrote:
How do the ends of the battery cable look? Are they corroded? The wire itself can corrode as well, it can be hidden under the insulation.

What year is your van? The later years used a larger battery cable. While a larger cable will help, it likely isn't your problem.

Some tests to run when it's hot and someone else is craking the engine: Measure the battery voltage, voltage at the starter, and the starter current with a clamp-on ammeter.


It's a '91 and the cable ends are clean. I was thinking it might be the positive cable too but it doesn't really seem likely. More likely the reman. starter going bad: does it sound like a starter going bad?

Thanks for your suggestions.
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joseph928
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: hot start Reply with quote

does it sound like a starter going bad?
Blue Bay Bus YES! Very Happy bad rebuild! But you still need to check out the cables for voltage drop first!
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Munroman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar, it turned out that the so called 'guru' who had changed the bush had burred the end when fitting it, so when things heated up it was putting resistance on the starter spindle.

I cleaned it up with a little round file and all was good. Very Happy
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Tram
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timing too advanced?
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Munroman wrote:
I had similar, it turned out that the so called 'guru' who had changed the bush had burred the end when fitting it, so when things heated up it was putting resistance on the starter spindle.

I cleaned it up with a little round file and all was good. Very Happy


Interesting. How in the world did you ever figure that one out? So the little copper looking bushing was distorted enough to limit the spinning force of the starter motor?

Certainly easy enough to check out!
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it was indeed the starter motor gong south! Thanks for everyones' suggestions. I installed a new one yesterday.

The GOOD news is that Autozone replaced it under warranty without question; could not have been any easier. The BAD news is the thing was only about a year and half old so it instills little confidence in the Durlast product. (They may need to change the name to Sortalast or something).
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoshG wrote:
Well, it was indeed the starter motor gong south! Thanks for everyones' suggestions. I installed a new one yesterday.

The GOOD news is that Autozone replaced it under warranty without question; could not have been any easier. The BAD news is the thing was only about a year and half old so it instills little confidence in the Durlast product. (They may need to change the name to Sortalast or something).


I always had to laugh at the Sears DieHard, because when they died, well...
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wunderbarVW
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im having a similar issue....new battery, new starter and alternator, and when I try to start it...the negative battery terminal gets really hot..like you i cleaned all the grounds I could find...including the one at the transmission. If I hook up another car to jump it off it will start no problem, but once the van is on its own it will turn over kinda slow...and eventually the battery acts like it is dead....I have no clue what the problem is...I was thinking maybe a starter relay??
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wunderbarVW wrote:
Im having a similar issue....new battery, new starter and alternator, and when I try to start it...the negative battery terminal gets really hot..like you i cleaned all the grounds I could find...including the one at the transmission. If I hook up another car to jump it off it will start no problem, but once the van is on its own it will turn over kinda slow...and eventually the battery acts like it is dead....I have no clue what the problem is...I was thinking maybe a starter relay??


Sounds exactly like the problem I was having right down to the ground wire getting very hot. It was a bad starter which was only 1.5 yrs. old!
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wunderbarVW
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting. I bought the new sparter almost exactly 1 year ago...but since I havent driven the van much i consider it to still be new. The van has been started maybe 20 times tops in the past year...what made you go back and recheck the starter? How did you know the starter was bad?
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoshG wrote:
Well, it was indeed the starter motor gong south! Thanks for everyones' suggestions. I installed a new one yesterday.

The GOOD news is that Autozone replaced it under warranty without question; could not have been any easier...


I have that same starter from AZ. Were they able to test it and confirm the problem or did they simply accept your explanation that it would not start well when hot?
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JoshG
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wunderbarVW wrote:
interesting. I bought the new sparter almost exactly 1 year ago...but since I havent driven the van much i consider it to still be new. The van has been started maybe 20 times tops in the past year...what made you go back and recheck the starter? How did you know the starter was bad?


I didn't. In fact, I was quite sure it was not the starter since it was only a year a half old! But, I ran out of options. Finally, I just pulled it out brought it to AutoZone, told them I needed a new one, which they gave me no questions asked, put it in; problem solved! I certainly hope this one last a little bit longer.
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