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dirtyhippie71
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: brake problem.. |
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brand new master cylinder, metal lines, rubber lines, wheel cylinders. And barely anything comes out of the bleeders if anything...
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71 standard beetle |
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JonF
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2005
Posts: 2030
Location: Oklahoma
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Gotta make absolutely sure that the brake pedal pin does not push the master cyl piston in...There should be a bit of clearance between the piston and the pin...Pedal free play does not mean that the piston and pin have clearance. Think the clearance is around 1/16 in.
If the MC piston is depressed a bit the MC piston fill holes will be blocked and will not allow fluid to flow from the RESERVOIR to the MC.
Jim |
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marchanel
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2011
Posts: 754
Location: Near Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep pumping and keep bleeding. With a dry system it can take awhile. You could bench bleed the master cylinder. Adjust the brakes also. |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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If things are correct you do not need to pump the pedal.
Make sure your reservoir is full....
Just open one rear wheel cyl bleed valve and after a bit of time 10 to 30 min it will begin to drip pretty fast.
Check the reservoir after a bit, it should be going down.
Fluid will flow from the res. to the MC, through the cyl's of the MC pistons, through the lines to the wheel cyl.
I would not open them all at once though you will run the reservoir dry in no time, then you will have to start all over again.
Nice to put a tube and bleed cup on the wheel cyl to catch the fluid.
http://www.harborfreight.com/one-man-brake-bleeder...1b2166becc
If you do not get any fluid after about 20 min or so, close the wheel cyl bleed valve and go to the Master cyl....
If the MC is a dual...Line to the rear and line to the front wheels, loosen the line going to the rear and it should start oozing/dripping...If it does not then the MC brake pedal rod is depressing the piston and thus no fluid is getting into the MC piston for the rear or your MCyl is defective.
You do not need to pump the pedal to test this or the following.
If you get fluid with the rear, test the front also just to make sure that the front Mcyl piston is working properly.
If you get fluid at both, go to the wheel cyl's at the rear and loosen the tube fitting on the w cyl...and see if after a bit it oozes/drips...
Lets see what happens when you do this before more info..
Once you have established flow then you can do the pump routine to finish bleeding.
Jim |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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If you proceed and have fluid working and are doing the pump method you must wait for 5-10 seconds between pumps to allow the fluid to fill the Master cyl from the Reservoir. If you do it too fast it will cavitate the air in the Mcyl, if there is some and then you will have small air bubbles....
Pumping the pedal during bleeding is not just pumping. You should be closing the bleeder before letting the pedal up....
Open down, not quite to the floor, close up...Wait, repeat.
Jim |
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Koeppler
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2011
Posts: 487
Location: Aging gracefully
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no maestro or guru but jeez, man, there's not a single brake problem that hasn't been covered on this forum a zillion times. Just earlier today there was this post which was answered with a bunch of suggestions for further reading
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=504757 |
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Koeppler wrote: |
I'm no maestro or guru but jeez, man, there's not a single brake problem that hasn't been covered on this forum a zillion times. Just earlier today there was this post which was answered with a bunch of suggestions for further reading
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=504757 |
Well you can read all the recommended solutions but not one person says:
If you put fluid into a master cylinder with no output hoses attached it will free flow fluid out of the outputs. Without pumping!
You do need to pump it to remove all of the air, but...........If the Mcyl is properly manufactured it will pass fluid quite quickly!
If the Master cyl piston is depressed slightly it will block off the Reservoir inputs and no fluid will get into the pistons and thus no fluid going out of the rear and front Master Cyl ports.w Or if the piston is slightly depressed the flow will be very slight and you will never get the system to bleed properly or it may take forever.
Jim |
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue69Baja wrote: |
| Koeppler wrote: |
I'm no maestro or guru but jeez, man, there's not a single brake problem that hasn't been covered on this forum a zillion times. Just earlier today there was this post which was answered with a bunch of suggestions for further reading
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=504757 |
Well you can read all the recommended solutions but not one person says:
If you put fluid into a master cylinder with no output hoses attached it will free flow fluid out of the outputs. Without pumping!
You do need to pump it to remove all of the air, but...........If the Mcyl is properly manufactured it will pass fluid quite quickly!
If the Master cyl piston is depressed slightly it will block off the Reservoir inputs and no fluid will get into the pistons and thus no fluid going out of the rear and front Master Cyl ports.w Or if the piston is slightly depressed the flow will be very slight and you will never get the system to bleed properly or it may take forever.
Jim |
That description is what gravity bleeding is about...
Jim |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Also good to read through the "Read Before Posting" at the top of the webpage:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183060
Make sure to check out the "Brake Bleeding" info there.
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In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yep and right there in brake bleeding within the first 10 posts are the exact examples discussed here.
Guess, instead of posting my CRAP I could have just linked to that thread.
But.....sometimes explaining a solution to a problem a little differently turns on someones light....Besides, I really like to waste my time...
Jim |
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DeathTrap
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Joined: February 26, 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Sacramento/Vermont
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Chances are that you may have replaced that master cylinder because you just couldn't or didn't want to adjust the brakes.
Incidentally it's much harder to bleed the brakes with the shoes out of adjustment by miles.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5377315#5377315 |
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