Ragtop too low

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: Ragtop too low

My son and I are waiting for his car to come back from paint and planning on a few changes. Currently it has a 2 inch beam with dropped spindles and disc brakes but even with the adjusters all the way up, it's too low. It has lowered gas shocks and smart car tires and the nose scrapes when going over small speed bumps. We don't want this to happen with new paint.

I was thinking we would take off the lowered spindles and put drum breaks back on until we can afford the $600 for disc breaks that work on stock spindles. Or we could pull the beam and have the adjusters re-welded so they can adjust up more.

Any other ideas? Here is how it sits now.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

fluxcap · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:03 am Post subject:

did you try removing the lowered shocks? Even if the adjusters appear to be cranked all the way up, those short shocks could be keeping the front end from raising all the way up.

Unless somebody re-indexed the adjusters down when they were welded in, you should be able to bring it up to a decent ride height that avoids scraping with dropped spindles.

I've got a very similar set up to you with a cb dropped disc kit and smart car tires. My beam is narrowed 2.5 inches and I welded in my adjusters so that fully up is stock height. My adjusters are just barely down from stock position and I run stock height shocks.

Here is how it sits now that I adjusted the front end down a tad. I scrape very rarely, and before I adjusted the front end down, I never scraped.

_________________
Eric - 1966 camper bus

"It's like, how much more black could this be, and the answer is none.......none more black."

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:23 am Post subject:

Your car looks great. I took off the shocks and measured their range of movement. I don't believe they are the problem. I'm wondering if we got a beam meant for stock spindles; the question wasn't asked when we ordered it. I think it came from CIP1.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

kev_par · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:40 am Post subject:

I have the same problem with a Beam I got from CIP1 as well. Still have not been able to figure out the problem.

fluxcap · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:46 am Post subject:

Yeah, I'm not sure how the adjusters from CIP1 are welded in, but I'd hope they would go up to at least stock height. If taking the shocks off didn't help, then it sounds like the options are pretty limited.

a. cut and reweld the adjusters - free if you have a welder, but not really fun to do since you have to pull everything apart.

b. go back to the stock spindles - but then you would lose your disc brakes (or have to buy another disc kit $$$)

c. slightly taller tires - may work depending on how much fender clearance you have, but tires these days aren't cheap.

d. suck it up and live with a few scrapes Cool

. I didn't like this option either, but after I had driven the car long enough and realized it had already gotten a few chips in the paint from regular driving conditions and was only going to get more, I said to heck with it and figured a few scrapes on the bottom of the apron wouldn't kill me and dropped it a bit more. Laughing

And I'm sure there are probably a few other ideas folks will suggest.
_________________
Eric - 1966 camper bus

"It's like, how much more black could this be, and the answer is none.......none more black."

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:07 am Post subject:

We have a nice welder so maybe we'll pull the front end and have a look at moving the adjusters up some. The car rides a little stiff so hopefully I can gain a little travel. I'm wondering if those red bushings are to stiff.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

scottvw · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:20 pm Post subject:

Lower the rear a notch. It will balance out the front a bit.

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject:

It doesn't show well in the picture but the rear is lowered one tooth, to the point that the muffler scrapes pulling into the driveway.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

Michael Fischer · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject:

Get rid of the rubberband front tires.

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject:

Are you saying smart car tires aren't smart?
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

drscope · Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:16 am Post subject:

kev_par · Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject:

Talked to the Tech Support At CIP1. He said that it will be about 3/4" lower than stock when fully adjusted. When you add drop spindles plus that its pretty low.

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject:

I wonder if CIP1 sells beams that are different than CB Performance (in the way they combine with dropped spindles)? If I lowered the beam adjusters all the way down, the beam would be on the deck. Had I known the combined items would leave the bug so low, I would not have used the dropped spindles, or I would have only used the dripped spindles, if that makes any since.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

jhicken · Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject:

Who are the disc brakes from? If they are CB discs, they sell spindles that are both stock and dropped, you might be able to just buy new spindles. Also, ditch the Conti smart car tires and pick up a set of 145 Nankangs, that would give you another 1/2 to 3/4 clearance.

I had the same problem with a CB puma beam. I was also running CB dropped spindles, CB discs and the Conti eco pro [smart car] 145's. At it's highest setting it scrapped all the time. Within six months the bottom adjuster practically ground off. My solution was a new beam from AirKewld. I installed the CB spindles and discs along with a set of 145 Michelins and now have more than enough room and the car rides and looks good. FWIW, the Airkewld beam adjusts an extra couple of inches over the Puma beam.

You might consider the taller 145's, that would be the cheaper than the new spindles.

-jeffrey
_________________
Der Kleiner Kampfwagens

Boom · Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject:

Avoid speed bumps
_________________
Ovals are Overrated.....Click to view image

67 Chubby White Chic

Düg Büg

dLk

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:20 am Post subject:

The disc breaks and spindles are Empi (I know, I know). These breaks won't work with stock spindles so if I went to stock spindles, I'd have to send $600 for another set of disc breaks. The idea behind the smart car tires was to have more tread on the pavement. Most of the 145s or 135s are very narrow.

I guess I should go back down to Discount Tire and price a taller tire, then compare it to the cost of replacing the beam. I was thinking about just putting the stock spindles back on and use the drum breaks until we can decide what to do. It's only a stock 1600 for the moment be we'll be going to a 150 hp stroker in the near future.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

jhicken · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:39 am Post subject:

145's are fine, cal look cars have been running 135's and 145's for decades. Also, the taller tires will give you a better ride as well. Good luck.

-jeffrey
_________________
Der Kleiner Kampfwagens

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:57 am Post subject:

Thanks for the help. I guess I didn't realize just how much the smart car tires were contributing to the extremely low stance. If 145s raised the front an inch, it would really help.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356

fluxcap · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject:

Exactly what size tires do you have up front, since I think there are actually a couple different sizes of smart car tires.

I have 175/55/15s on the front of mine. Doing a comparison with 145/80/15 on this site http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.dos will tell you the difference in height and width of the your current tire and any other tires.

Using the sizes I mentioned above, the sidewall height of the 175 is 3.79inches, where the 145 is 4.57inches. Not a full inch difference, but .78 of an inch, which is still pretty good.

Just remember, while that will raise your car of the ground by that much, it's also going bring the top of your tire that much closer to the bottom of your fender lip. However, the tire is skinnier, so that should help keep it away from the fender.
_________________
Eric - 1966 camper bus

"It's like, how much more black could this be, and the answer is none.......none more black."

Ellis' Bug · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:58 pm Post subject:

I texted my son to ask what size they are and he said 155. I'll have to check them later this afternoon to be sure. Tire numbers have always been a mystery to me. I know there is a percentage of tread width to sidewall hight...... or something like that. I'll plug the numbers in and check the difference. If the 145s are thinner, they may work.
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356


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