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Hoodride66
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2012
Posts: 43
Location: Washington
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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: 66 bug starting problem |
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just fixed everything on my bug and everything is connected where it needs to be and everything has a good connection..
I just tried starting my bug and its had a really slow turn over then just stopped like my battery wasnt giving it enough power so i tried to jump start it and it was the same thing.. any idea why it wouldnt be turning over fast enough to start up my motor?? |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Is this the same 6 volt starter that was getting really hot before? |
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Hoodride66
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2012
Posts: 43
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah it is. every problem I was having before is all fixed but now it doenst even want to turn over really. |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Quick test:
With the key off, put the car in NEUTRAL and raise it enough to get underneath. Take a big screwdriver and short across both big terminals on the solenoid. If your starter turns over nice and fast, it's probably ok (it won't crank the motor over during this test, though, since it won't be engaging the flywheel). If not, your starter is bad.
If your starter turns fast this way, but not with the key, check the solenoid. Short across the big connection coming from the battery, to the small wire going up to the ignition switch. If this makes your starter work properly (engaging the flywheel as it should), your starter is ok and the trouble is elsewhere. If not, the solenoid is bad. |
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Hammarlund
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 1539
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Smell the starter. If it smells burnt, the odds are the insulation between the windings has broken down, and the starter is bad.
This is a common problem with six-volt starters that are overheated while they have twelve volts across them, which I believe is the case here.
Such a starter will often spin normally when not under load, as in the test described by Donnie; but cannot develop enough torque to turn the engine over.
In addition, the breakdown between the windings lowers the internal resistance of the starter, thus causing the starter to become a current hog, and so robs the coil of adequate current flow to make a nice, strong spark. This is often what prevents the engine from starting, not the fact that the starter is turning over slowly. Replacing the starter with a good one also fixes the weak spark problem. I've seen this happen several times! |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quite correct, and my suspicion is that a new starter will be needed. But these tests only take a few minutes to do, and cost nothing. Just a rule-out kind of thing. |
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Hammarlund
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 1539
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Good points.
And, I am really big on the idea of running tests to eliminate unnecessary spending.
_________________
Trying to diagnose electrical problems without paying attention to what the red light is telling you is like trying to play the piano without using your hands. |
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vwdonwalking
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Elvle,NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: 6 volt starting |
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| I have a 6 volt 1200 it starts very good when cold,but after it is warmed up it is very difficult to start. must times it will start when I release the key & starter is not using voltage,but the engine is spinning. I have been told a warm engine & starter uses more amperage than when cold!!This starter has been jumped w/12 v several times Could this be the problem?? Is there a test for a starer that needs to much am perage?? |
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Hammarlund
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 1539
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: |
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It is usually considered good form to start a new thread in situations like this.
| Quote: |
| must times it will start when I release the key & starter is not using voltage,but the engine is spinning. |
This is almost always a dead giveaway that the electrical system cannot supply enough current to run the starter and the ignition system at the same time.
However, this is not necessarily due to a bad starter. A bad battery or bad connections to the ignition system can also cause this.
Measure the voltage across the battery while cranking. If it drops much below 4.8 volts the battery is suspect, but the starter could also be bad.
So, smell the starter, as suggested above. If it smells burnt, it may need to be replaced.
If the battery voltage does not drop below 4.8 volts, measure the voltage present on the positive terminal of the coil while cranking. If this drops much below 4.8 volts, you may have a bad connection somewhere.
Remember the coil wants at least 4.8 volts on that terminal to produce a nice, strong, spark! The car will often run with less, but will frequently not run well or start reliably.
Occasionally jumping a six-volt starter with twelve volts won't hurt the starter, unless the starter is cranked and cranked and cranked for thirty or forty seconds or more without giving it time to cool off between bouts of cranking. If you did this, smell the starter, etc.
However, putting twelve volts across a six-volt electrical system can damage all sorts of things. This is especially true of the voltage regulator, battery, and dash bulbs!
So, are your red and green light still working? If not, replace those bulbs now. If the red one is staying on, you have probably fried your voltage regulator.
In future, avoid jumping a six-volt car with twelve volts, unless you know how to put the voltage directly on the starter (and, in that case, if the battery is too low to make a spark, the car won't start anyway...).
If you have been having trouble keeping your battery charged, and the red light is working and behaving properly, the odds are your battery is no good, even if it is new. Many six-volt batteries being sold these days are garbage. Try a six-volt Optima; they are not cheap, but if you try one, I think you'll find it much easier to start your car when warm or after it has been sitting a week or so.
_________________
Trying to diagnose electrical problems without paying attention to what the red light is telling you is like trying to play the piano without using your hands. |
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vwdonwalking
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Elvle,NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: 66 bug starting problem |
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| Not to smart on forum maners. Thanks for the info on voltage when cranking will check those out in the AM. The gen seems OK as voltage is 7.6 w/ engine running.I only jump w/12 v when getting out of storage & then put it at the reg term from the bat.The puzzling part is that it starts fine when cold,but is a problem when warm. |
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Hoodride66
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2012
Posts: 43
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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my starter was bad. got one last night and started it up just fine this morning with no struggle. thanks for the help!
now i got my brakes to worry about.. gone thru and bled them like 7 times in one sitting all around and still nothing. |
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vwdonwalking
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Elvle,NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Hammarund for the tip to test the battery voltage at various places, Mine was below 4.8 @ the starter I replaced the battery w/ one from my 6 volt tractor & starting does not seem to be a problem anymore. Will look for a Optima bat. Do you know what auto supplier would handle that brand? Thank again for the help.
Don Tompkins |
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