#3 exhaust is valve lower

[Bradmcd]

I have recently replaced one of my hydraulic lifters,#3 exhaust. I tried everything to bleed this lifter first...followed the bently,also tried warming up oil in a can with lifter in it...It won't pump up! While doing all of this and checking every forum that I can in the process,I have removed the rockers on the #3 and 4 side and checked the valves with a straight edge. The #3 exhaust is a bit lower and I'm wondering if it's because of the lifter not pumping up,or if I have a sinking valve?????

I have a 78 2.0 converted from FI to carb(just thought I'd mention that)

[busdaddy]

Could be a loose seat, unless you have access to a borescope it may be time to pull the heads for a look.
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[CrRusty]

I have had a long battle with trying to bleed hydraulic lifters. After a year of trying different things I got them to work. Because my original lifters were not pumping up, I bought a new set of lifters from Busdepot some of which were soft and others were hard to depress(some were garbage). I use a large Phillips driver & push down on the pushrod end while it sits on the bench, in a pool of motor oil. This is my understanding of how to prime a lifter. If u can easily move the center piston with one hand, the lifter is soft(not useable). If u can not depress the center piston with all your effort it is "pumped up".
I would suspect your lifter does not want to pump up. Quick way out would be to replace your lifter with new or good used.
Took my soft ones apart poured in oil reassembled on bench & the next morning soft again. I strongly suspect there is a small 1 way valve in the center section which holds the pressure and makes lifter firm.
Replace with a new pumped up lifter and your problem will be solved.

[busdaddy]

[Wildthings]

One valve stem lower or one valve stem higher? It is normal to find that the intakes and exhaust are at a slightly different height. Your problem may be in the exhaust valve that is at the same height as the intakes and not the exhaust valve that is lower.

For now try setting the adjustment on your problem lifter so that you have no preload but a tiny bit of lash. The lifter may pump right up as your start and run your engine. Go back and reset the preload after the lifter pumps up.

Do be wary of the valve stem height issue if you choose to run with your heads the way they are now. Having your valve seats checked by a knowledgeable person with a borescope would be a good idea and might save you from ruining your bottom end.

[Bradmcd]

Busdaddy,I think that you may be right! I am seriously thinking about pulling the heads! How big of a project is it? And what are the chances of having"Betty"up and running by the 28th???(first camping trip of the year) And Wildthings,I have been following both you and Busdaddy on the forums,I tried MMO and ran it for a couple of days to work(about 25 miles total)changed the oil and still nothing! And the #3 exhaust is lower! With a straight edge along the 4 valves both #4's and the #3 intake are flush,it's the #3 exhaust that is lower..also my problem lifter!!! Which leads me to believe that I have a loose seat??? I am willing to do the right thing no matter what the cost! Living in Wisconsin my prime driving months are going by fast!!!

[busdaddy]

I'd be taking a trip to the local small airport and asking around for someone with a borescope and the skills to use it. They are primarily used for jet engine inspections but many small fixed wing A&P's have them as well for engine and structure inspections and likely know their way around a combustion chamber enough to spot a loose seat for you in exchange for a case of beer or whatever favor floats their boat, sweeping hangars or washing a plane is a good peace offering that most can't pass up.

I'm not trying to scare you to death but a swallowed valve is a bad thing that isn't nearly as hard to fix if you catch it in time and 2.0's are the the most notorious valve droppers, a little peek now will be time well spent although from thier track record most need work sooner or later, better in the driveway than on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere.
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[1967250s]

Jumping to conclusions here. First, what is it running like? Not screwed too far down on the adjustment? What is compression? Then, if no compression, pull head.

[Wildthings]

[Bradmcd]

As far as only running the MMO for a brief period,the lifter I had replaced had lost the lock ring. So I didn't want to run the bus too long. When changing the oil I did find the lock ring in the strainer. I can get the ticking to go away,but the adjuster screw is almost all the way in. My guess would be because that valve stem is lower,thus requiring more turns on that screw. So maybe the lifter is pumped up??? I am just not comfortable running it that way. No time to work on it today being Father's day. I will have to get someone to do a compression test and look at the seat with a borescope.

[Wildthings]

[1967250s]

Repeat-- What is the compression saying? It may be that the valve just sits higher on the seat, or that the stem is just shorter than the others, and everything is okay and nothing needs to be done. Until you check that, you are guessing.

[Bradmcd]

Update,went and got a compression tester,still need to check #1 but so far the readings are #2/120,#3/115,#4/120. #1 is being a pain in the ass and I ran out of daylight,I'll get the reading on that one tomorrow. I also took out the problem lifter that wasn't pumping up and replaced it with one that I was able to bleed in a soup can full of oil with a Phillips screwdriver and I was able to preload at 1.5 turns and the screw is"normal"meaning the same amount of threads showing as the others.

[1967250s]

Ok! Since #3 is fine on compression( and the others, so far), I would not worry about the seat for now. I would see about getting another cam follower, unless you can get that one fixed. Others here know your engine better than I( I have solids and dual carbs), so I'll let them advise you on the rest of your tune up. Best of luck.

[old DKP driver]

Brad, Since looking at your post iand seeing you have done a compression
test and it looks okay. you may have a problem with the valve guide
coming loose or, the Exhaust valve sticking in the guide for a number of reasons.

I posted 2 new pictures in my gallery pic's that will show you what happened
to another Samba member 'PATAYRES' but, I could not get his link to them
in his post.(see CYLINDER head pic in my gallery) click to enlarge...

Sometimes, the valve guide can move outward in the head and, like the pictures Show sometimes the valve stem keepers will wear out the stem
slots also..

Either way, it's probably time for a closer inspection with the head OFF.
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